[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

Sorry to lose you Iomion, you contributed a great deal to this thread (as opposing voices tend to do) and I appreciate your thoughts, <I>especially targeting particular 'offending scenes' for re-script.</I> Thank you. If you'd like to visit again, you are welcome. I hope others who didn't like the movie offer up a few choice bits for surgery. We who loved the movie tend to sweep the entire movie - faults and all - into one happy package. Love is like that. I may raid the "People who Thought the Movie Stunk" thread for their less vitriolic ideas. If there are any. <P>Fenrir - you're quite right, that over-rehearsed speech of Saruman's would have been very effective, especially from Christopher Lee. <BR>Would you have had that instead of a wizard duel, or before?<P>Rose - You have good instincts. <BR>Yes, it was the spinning more than anything else... I found myself cringing.<P>Good scene to rewrite, by putting Glofindel back we could reduce Arwen to her normal size. <P>But if we <I>had</I> to use Arwen in a 'macho' role, for political correctness, she needed to be just an elven foot soldier at that point, not draw so much attention to herself. It's a mistake not to, because you still end up defining Arwen by her relationship to Aragorn, by putting that first. That's why she's so fake and annoying.<BR>Peter could have surprised us, with good effect, with their relationship later in Rivendell, after establishing her competence.<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Aragorn hears sound of hooves, orders the hobbits to hide.<BR><LI>Arwen rides up (whatever), he greets her, but hurriedly explains there's little time. <LI>(Frodo healing scene)<BR><LI>Arwen takes Frodo on her horse (skip the argument about who takes Frodo - silly waste of time, and undermines the "beefy" Arwen character at the same time it attempts to make her look strong)<BR><LI>Instead of having one long chase scene to the Ford, have her lose the Riders<BR><LI>Or better yet, if we're going to make her cool, let's do it right...<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"Frodo, can you hang on, by yourself? Just get through the water - ! <BR>My horse can't carry two and win this race."<BR>"But, but they will catch you.."<BR>"They are not after me!" (jumps from cantering horse)<P>Hey, if you're going to be macho...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></UL><P>The romantic meeting in the woods (between Arwen & Aragorn) was just inappropriate for the tone of the moment. Distracting to add a romantic subplot, right when you're supposed to be worried about Frodo. <BR>Absolutely, you're right, it was essential Frodo face the riders alone at the ford. <P>There are three key moments where Frodo's role is weakened, and you nailed the second:<BR><UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>When Frodo asks (whimpers) "What should I do?" and Gandalf tells him to leave the Shire. <BR><LI>At the Ford, when Arwen is the one who faces the Nazgul. <BR><LI>With Galadriel in Lorien, when she tells him to go it alone. </UL><BR>He's stronger, however, just after Gandalf's fall in Moria. Filming him standing apart from the group and not quite stopping when he was told - very effective. <P>This actually ties into what Lush was saying...<P>Lush - Amen. Fewer close-ups of Elijah, for all his glowing screen presence, the somewhat weakened role left him with mush, one reactive expression after another. He's a good enough actor to let on what Frodo was thinking, if Gandalf and Galadriel'd left him any to do.<P>I suspect sometimes Peter was so concerned non-readers wouldn't understand the books he overcompensated, sacrificing subtlety.<P>Ha! That isn't a green bottle of vitriol from the 'Those who thought the movie stunk' thread is it? Strong stuff! Sprinkle a little over here, we lost Iomion. <P>-Maril<p>[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]