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Iarwain · 01-22-2003, 06:50 PM

I disagree, Jurion. How could God/Eru want there to be evil? Think of the suffering, the loss, the corruption. Rather, I think that Melkor/Satan's corruption shows how, as Yavanna quoted, all things work together for good. Because evil/Melkor/Satan has truly no possible way of contending with God/Eru, all things turn out for the greater good. Tolkien even writes Eru saying this to Melkor, as Legolas quoted.

Iarwain

P.S. Saucepan, time for a direct confrontation. Without evil, there would be pure, unfettered joy and love. You cannot say that evil is good in the eyes of God, unless you are a pantheist, in which you would not believe in good or evil, or a distinction between the two. How could God so desire that corruption awoke in his beloved creation, that those whom he loved unconditionally began to hate him? I strongly recommend reading Perelandra by Lewis. Does disobedience bring joy? Is there happiness
in evil. No, there is not. When Melkor rebels, he ruins himself, he torments himself, he puts himself and others through horrible things that can never be taken back or changed. You argue, perhaps, that great wisdom and understanding came to the elves of Melkor's rebellion. But imagine if such wisdom, appreciation, and understanding came through Eru, through joy, and kindness, rather than cruelty. Would you prefer to learn about the human nervous system by having your nerves charged, or feeling a gentle touch? Appreciation perhaps, did come of evil, but does that make the evil good?

Iarwain

[ January 22, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

01-22-2003, 06:50 PM	#20
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 800	I disagree, Jurion. How could God/Eru want there to be evil? Think of the suffering, the loss, the corruption. Rather, I think that Melkor/Satan's corruption shows how, as Yavanna quoted, all things work together for good. Because evil/Melkor/Satan has truly no possible way of contending with God/Eru, all things turn out for the greater good. Tolkien even writes Eru saying this to Melkor, as Legolas quoted. Iarwain P.S. Saucepan, time for a direct confrontation. Without evil, there would be pure, unfettered joy and love. You cannot say that evil is good in the eyes of God, unless you are a pantheist, in which you would not believe in good or evil, or a distinction between the two. How could God so desire that corruption awoke in his beloved creation, that those whom he loved unconditionally began to hate him? I strongly recommend reading Perelandra by Lewis. Does disobedience bring joy? Is there happiness in evil. No, there is not. When Melkor rebels, he ruins himself, he torments himself, he puts himself and others through horrible things that can never be taken back or changed. You argue, perhaps, that great wisdom and understanding came to the elves of Melkor's rebellion. But imagine if such wisdom, appreciation, and understanding came through Eru, through joy, and kindness, rather than cruelty. Would you prefer to learn about the human nervous system by having your nerves charged, or feeling a gentle touch? Appreciation perhaps, did come of evil, but does that make the evil good? Iarwain [ January 22, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ] __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"