[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

That is a very interesting thought (outer form being animated by the will of Melkor), but how would you fit that into the plethora of different quotes, which specifically place the 'animation spirit' on orcs and the like ('like orcs -- in character and origin (Morgoth's Ring),

I wonder, have you taken into account Tolkien's thoughts on orcish origin at all? One of his theories was that orcs were creatures of beast origin Those bodies then would be soulless and controlled by the power of Morgoth. I am stealing shamelessly from HerenIstarion's excellent notes on orc origin when I supply a few quotes:

"Orcs are beasts and Balrogs corrupted Maiar"

and

I think it must be assumed that 'talking' is not necessarily the sign of the possession of a 'rational soul' or fea. The Orcs were beasts of humanized shape (to mock Men and Elves) deliberately perverted I converted into a more close resemblance to Men. Their 'talking' was really reeling off 'records' set in them by Melkor. Even their rebellious critical words - he knew about them. Melkor taught them speech and as they bred they inherited this; and they had just as much independence as have, say, dogs or horses of their human masters. This talking was largely echoic (cf. parrots). In The Lord of the Rings Sauron is said to have devised a language for them.

both from Morgoth's Ring.

I realize that you have already mentioned not taking chronology into account yet, but I believe it would be helpful to know which theory of orc origin you are dealing with before trying to derive troll origin from the same source. When Tolkien says that they are from similar sources, we cannot automatically assume that corruption of elves is that source, as over his life many theories were tried on and rejected. The theory that he was working with at the time is likely the one to which that quote refers.

Very interesting, though, and something to argue with myself about, if I ever have time to breathe again [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].

Sophia