The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Did Tolkien find the idea of war honourable?

Osse · 01-28-2004, 06:55 PM

I am interested in something... something that many of you have never thought about or imagined.

When you read the battle scenes in the books, how does the image take shape in your mind's eye? Let's take the charge of the rohirrim for example.

Here we have over 4000 mounted men, armed with swords and spears charging into a group of orcs/men.

Many people have replied above that they guess hand to hand fighting is more "romantic" than the wars of today... this is a huge myth, thought the idea of killing someone at close hand seems better than killing someone from 20 miles away and you'd hope it'd make people more loathe to do kill, the reality was that in a melee... with people swinging and stabbing, clean kills are rarely made.

War using hand to hand weapons such as in LOTR, would involve a LOT of body parts being severed, and I dont mean just heads and limbs... small things like ears and fingers and scalps are being ripped off, abdomens are being split, heads are being cloven vertically... you'd see pieces of your friends flying around...

My point is this (sorry this had to be graphic) : do you guys picture these battles as they really would be? Or does your mind just see the goodies chopping the baddies, and the baddies chopping the goodies?

The way these battle scenes are written, causes me at least to imagine them without the true aspects of hand to hand battle... and I am glad of that, however it does make war seem and look more honourable. Tolkien experienced these sort of things first hand... and in no way loves war or finds war as a whole honourable.

If i imagine war as it should be... the romance leaves it, not the honour, for it is still perhaps honourable to die for a cause. Killing someone is not honourable, but perhaps fighting for something worthy is?

All war is horrible, and unneeded, but perhaps it is built into the human psyche- you have to admit it is a good way of keeping the populations down.

*wowee i am a wight finally!*

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:56 PM January 28, 2004: Message edited by: Osse ]

01-28-2004, 06:55 PM	#13
Osse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Encircling Sea, deciding which ship to ruin next...could be yours. Posts: 274	I am interested in something... something that many of you have never thought about or imagined. When you read the battle scenes in the books, how does the image take shape in your mind's eye? Let's take the charge of the rohirrim for example. Here we have over 4000 mounted men, armed with swords and spears charging into a group of orcs/men. Many people have replied above that they guess hand to hand fighting is more "romantic" than the wars of today... this is a huge myth, thought the idea of killing someone at close hand seems better than killing someone from 20 miles away and you'd hope it'd make people more loathe to do kill, the reality was that in a melee... with people swinging and stabbing, clean kills are rarely made. War using hand to hand weapons such as in LOTR, would involve a LOT of body parts being severed, and I dont mean just heads and limbs... small things like ears and fingers and scalps are being ripped off, abdomens are being split, heads are being cloven vertically... you'd see pieces of your friends flying around... My point is this (sorry this had to be graphic) : do you guys picture these battles as they really would be? Or does your mind just see the goodies chopping the baddies, and the baddies chopping the goodies? The way these battle scenes are written, causes me at least to imagine them without the true aspects of hand to hand battle... and I am glad of that, however it does make war seem and look more honourable. Tolkien experienced these sort of things first hand... and in no way loves war or finds war as a whole honourable. If i imagine war as it should be... the romance leaves it, not the honour, for it is still perhaps honourable to die for a cause. Killing someone is not honourable, but perhaps fighting for something worthy is? All war is horrible, and unneeded, but perhaps it is built into the human psyche- you have to admit it is a good way of keeping the populations down. wowee i am a wight finally! <font size=1 color=339966>[ 7:56 PM January 28, 2004: Message edited by: Osse ] __________________ 'A thinking tyrant, it seemed to Vetinari, had a much harder job than a ruler raised to power by some idiot system like democracy. At least HE could tell the people he was THEIR fault.'