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07-09-2003, 09:10 AM

Scott -- You said, 'any origin or form of explanation as to the creation of the trolls was set concretely in Tolkien's mind. On this point, I cannot agree'

Such was the point of my post. I wished to find the most logically possible origin for Trolls, based on the plethora of possible options provided by Tolkien. I even disclaim that most of my post is in fact speculation, and should be treated as such. I in no way claimed my theories to be 'definitive'. I claimed them to be theories which were based on Tolkien's writing throughout his chronological history. I attempted to incorporate the quotes from agreeably variable time periods into a logically sound theory. Indeed they were not directly the ideas of Tolkien.

'I am not trying to spurn your creative thought processes, but I think that you might need to be a bit more chronologically accurate, in reverance to Tolkien.'

I had not even taken this into consideration. I will, in my next post regarding Trolls, attempt to incorporate this into my theorums.

Gwaihir -- You wrote: "the various types of trolls are not from different sources"

I tend to disagree with this statement. Tolkien states in Letter 153 that there are "other sorts of Trolls besides these rather ridiculous, if brutal, Stone-trolls for which other origins are suggested." This seems to clearly state that the Trolls vary in their origins.

You wrote: 'The theory that Trolls were a corrupted version of Ents may be true'

One must take into consideration, however, the materials which the Trolls and Ents are made of. Trolls, as we know, are made of stone, or the 'stuff of the mountains' (The Hobbit). However, Ents are said to be made of materials of the forest. I have, in no occurrence, witnessed the power of Melkor to actually change materials. Yes, his corruptionary powers were immense, but to transmute materials from one creature to another is, I find, very unlikely. I am, however, beginning to favor your idea that one origin of Trolls were poor vala or maia creations which Melkor rather took advantage of. I will also, at your suggestion, cut down the length of my posts [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. I will post the requested summary perhaps later today or tomorrow.

07-09-2003, 09:10 AM	#4
Bilbo Guest Posts: n/a	Scott -- You said, 'any origin or form of explanation as to the creation of the trolls was set concretely in Tolkien's mind. On this point, I cannot agree' Such was the point of my post. I wished to find the most logically possible origin for Trolls, based on the plethora of possible options provided by Tolkien. I even disclaim that most of my post is in fact speculation, and should be treated as such. I in no way claimed my theories to be 'definitive'. I claimed them to be theories which were based on Tolkien's writing throughout his chronological history. I attempted to incorporate the quotes from agreeably variable time periods into a logically sound theory. Indeed they were not directly the ideas of Tolkien. 'I am not trying to spurn your creative thought processes, but I think that you might need to be a bit more chronologically accurate, in reverance to Tolkien.' I had not even taken this into consideration. I will, in my next post regarding Trolls, attempt to incorporate this into my theorums. Gwaihir -- You wrote: "the various types of trolls are not from different sources" I tend to disagree with this statement. Tolkien states in Letter 153 that there are "other sorts of Trolls besides these rather ridiculous, if brutal, Stone-trolls for which other origins are suggested." This seems to clearly state that the Trolls vary in their origins. You wrote: 'The theory that Trolls were a corrupted version of Ents may be true' One must take into consideration, however, the materials which the Trolls and Ents are made of. Trolls, as we know, are made of stone, or the 'stuff of the mountains' (The Hobbit). However, Ents are said to be made of materials of the forest. I have, in no occurrence, witnessed the power of Melkor to actually change materials. Yes, his corruptionary powers were immense, but to transmute materials from one creature to another is, I find, very unlikely. I am, however, beginning to favor your idea that one origin of Trolls were poor vala or maia creations which Melkor rather took advantage of. I will also, at your suggestion, cut down the length of my posts [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. I will post the requested summary perhaps later today or tomorrow.