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Old 04-30-2002, 06:04 PM   #29
Kalessin
Wight
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Earthsea, or London
Posts: 175
Kalessin has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Having just participated at length in a thread that was closed after complaints, I guess I'm skating on thin ice here, but here goes ...

As far as I can tell this is not a "gay" thread (whatever that is). I and others have pointed out above that homosexuality was neither unknown nor unspeakably taboo in Tolkien's academic and literary circles, although it's both possible - and probable -that as a (small-c) conservative and devout Catholic, Tolkien would have disapproved of it in general.

At the same time, there are particular kinds of male relationship, particularly in the context of Tolkien's culture and time, where a homoerotic undertone (or interpretation) to various works of art (not specifically LotR) can be inferred with some validity. Military culture, the academic circles, public school traditions, the intimacy between master and servant, and the repressive sexual politics of imperial Britain can be cited collectively or selectively as factors in this kind of interpretation.

Please note that "homoerotic" is different to "homosexual". It is more to do with a particular appreciation of masculinity, and specific kinds of intimate (platonic) male relationships (or bonding), something we can trace back to Greek and Roman culture - and whilst it can form a part of explicitly gay culture or experience, it is not automatically or necessarily a part of it. And any homoerotic element is not necessarily a reflection on the author's conscious intention [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

However, I think there is a consensus (with which I agree) that there is barely the slightest undertone of homoerotic content in any of Tolkien's work, certainly not enough to warrant more than a minimal reference in passing - by way of dismissal. By contrast, various Hollywood films of the time (and since) exhibit far more obvious resonances in this area [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] .

As I pointed out earlier, this is a slightly playful topic - but not one that should arouse any offense, given the generally intelligent and thoughtful discussion above. Gilthalion has probably best summed up the idealistic (or nostalgic) concept of hobbit life that Tolkien portrayed and it's cultural context and origin, and there is no controversy here. And Kalimac and others have demonstrated the absence of any 'telling' or convincing gay undertones in the relationship between Sam and Frodo.

The only contextual 'fact', as such, of relevance is that homosexuality was very much present and accepted in literary, artistic and academic circles throughout Tolkien's life (as now). And I know of nothing in LotR or other works that speaks 'against' homosexuality ... so I guess that implies it wasn't really an issue for him. It's certain that all of us have met and/or know gay men (whether we know they are gay is a different point), and so had Tolkien. It doesn't mean we consciously think about the homoerotic aspect of images or literature all the time, but it (and they) are a part of our life experience. With respect to LotR, it should be easy enough to discuss it and put it in its proper perspective. NO ONE IS MAKING ANY WILD ASSERTIONS!!

Peace [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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