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DaughterofVana · 11-29-2002, 09:04 PM

Eldar 14 (and everyone else)--

Tolkien said that the evil things in middle earth are only corruptions of the good--it was alluded to with the creation of the Uruk-hai, and delt with more vividly in the Silmarillion with the fall of Melkor. Yet here's the rub: if Ungoliant was courrupted by Melkor, then what was She catagorized when she was uncorrupted (and thus her ultimate identity)? She couldn't have still been catagorized as what She was prior to the corruption, for the corrupted beings change their names after the deed was done (I.E., Elves = Uruk-hai). Did she exist previously in another form prior to the Song? Or was she created after/before/during the creatures of Ea? Or does this little meander just fall back into the stalemate of "was Ungoliant a Valar"?

THAT one I have trouble swallowing. Ungoliant and her Daughters are described as being foul-looking and unpleasant, like the corruptions of Melkor (orcs, goblins, etc.). Yet Melkor himself was outwardly beautiful (being as he was the most powerful Valar), though he fell to evil purposes. Doesn't that make the argument of Ungoliant's origin lean more towards Her being a creation of something, more directly something evil? If so, then who (or what)?

-'Vana

[ December 01, 2002: Message edited by: DaughterofVana ]

11-29-2002, 09:04 PM	#6
DaughterofVana Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: twirling contentedly in a flower-filled field Posts: 134	Eldar 14 (and everyone else)-- Tolkien said that the evil things in middle earth are only corruptions of the good--it was alluded to with the creation of the Uruk-hai, and delt with more vividly in the Silmarillion with the fall of Melkor. Yet here's the rub: if Ungoliant was courrupted by Melkor, then what was She catagorized when she was uncorrupted (and thus her ultimate identity)? She couldn't have still been catagorized as what She was prior to the corruption, for the corrupted beings change their names after the deed was done (I.E., Elves = Uruk-hai). Did she exist previously in another form prior to the Song? Or was she created after/before/during the creatures of Ea? Or does this little meander just fall back into the stalemate of "was Ungoliant a Valar"? THAT one I have trouble swallowing. Ungoliant and her Daughters are described as being foul-looking and unpleasant, like the corruptions of Melkor (orcs, goblins, etc.). Yet Melkor himself was outwardly beautiful (being as he was the most powerful Valar), though he fell to evil purposes. Doesn't that make the argument of Ungoliant's origin lean more towards Her being a creation of something, more directly something evil? If so, then who (or what)? -'Vana [ December 01, 2002: Message edited by: DaughterofVana ] __________________ "There is a kind of happiness and wonder that makes you serious. It is too good to waste on jokes." Hi! Did you miss me?