[Carannillion]

Hmm...

Lots of rather peculiar "facts" here...

Galorme, your clarification on the creation of things is appreciated, but let me take it further.

In short, only Ilúvatar (Erü) could create. Ilúvatar created the Ainur, and they took part in the cration of the Great Music. Out of the Music, Ilúvatar created Arda, the world where Middle-Earth is located. Some of the Ainur went to live in Arda, 16 "greater" and an unknown - and large - number of "lesser". These "greater" Ainur were known as the Valar, and Manwë was their leader. One of these "greater" Ainur, namely Melkor, was however not really counted among the Valar, for he desired to have Arda for himself. Ultimately he desired the power of Ilúvatar, the power to create things, but Ilúvatar had this power locked away in the Flame Imperishable which only Ilúvatar knows where (and when..?) is. It is stated in Sil that Melkor often went alone into the Void looking for it, but he could never find it. Now the substance of Arda was there, but it was yet to be shaped. The Valar undertook this mission, but found their work more than often spoilt, twisted and destroyed by Melkor. This was the nature of Melkor, to twist the work and creations of others, just as he had done with the Music. The Elves are called "the firstborn" and are created by Ilúvatar. The Valar knew of "the Children of Ilúvatar", but they did not know who they were, what they looked like and so on. The exact day of their awakening was also unknown, but one day Oromë found them in the far east of Middle-Earth (p. 49 of the Silmarillion). The same thing was with Men, and of Hobbits little is told. The dwarves and the Ents are a different matter though. The dwarves were forged by Aulë, and given life by Ilúvatar. At first they seemed living, but they were - like the One Ring - still of Aulë's spirit, and so they could only "live" when he gave them attention (p. 43 of the Silmarillion). Ilúvatar asked Aulë why he broke the rules and created things of his own and if he was aware that this cration was not independent of him and so on. Aulë answered that he created them out of a desire to love them and teach them, not to dominate them and so Ilúvatar gave them life - it is actually quite interesting to see this event compared to the Bible (as with so many things of Tolkien's works) and Abraham... The Ents are a difficult matter. The only thing I can find on them in Silmarillion is on page 46, where it is said that the thought of Yavanna will summon "spirits from afar" to protect the olvar (things that grow, trees flowers and so on).

All life comes from Ilúvatar, and all creation originates from him. Arda was created by Ilúvatar out of the Music which was sung by the Ainur - spirits of his thought - and the shape of Arda was left to be forged by the Valar and the Maiar. Melkor was a pain in the *** and was ultimately cast into the Void. As for the orcs, I am unsure of their exact origins. We have the theory of animals and the theory of twisted elves. I actually feel that the twisted elves thing is the correct one, but... The Uruk-Hai is another thing. "Uruk" is a derivative of "Yrch". "Yrch" is "Orc" in "orcish" (I'm not sure if this is Black Speech or some original "orcish" language). "Hai" is "warrior" - I think - and so Uruk-Hai is "Orc-Warrior". There is nothing special about them except that they have been "stimulated" into growing big. They are still orcs. Orcs and Goblins are the same thing as far as I know, "goblin" is simply the term used in "the Hobbit". The Uruk-Hai are thus large orcs because the enviroment they live in - war - demands this from them. We find the same thing in humans today: different size, shape and colour on different continents. Why? I dunno... But Saruman did NOT create the Uruk-Hai, they were MAYBE made bigger by Sauron, but still neither Saruman nor Sauron could crate anything.

Oh, and by the way, Saruman was more powerful than Gandalf, and Sauron was even more powerful again, but as we all know Gandalf prevailed because of his other qualities. Gandalf, Saruman and Sauron were originally all alike. They were Maiar and thus of the Ainur. Sauron turned to "evil" (the definition of evil in Tolkien's works has been discussed her at BD many times...) and the service of Melkor (named Morgoth by the elves), and Saruman and Gandalf were given the form of Men and sent to ME to aid the free peoples in the struggle against Sauron along with three others. Saruman was deceived and turned by Suron, two of them are unheard of except that they went into the east, I have no idea if Radagast did what he was supposed to and Gandalf prevailed and completed his task.

As for contradictions in Tolkien's works, I would say there are none. Tolkien's universe is so vast and complex, and in the process of writing it he decided to leav a lot of it unknown. It is up to the reader. We can only guess, just like in real-life archeology...

[ November 23, 2002: Message edited by: Carannillion ]