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Old 05-27-2002, 03:38 PM   #134
Kuruharan
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Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Tolkien

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Tolkien was very clear about other incarnate Maiar. He didn't just hint at it. We know that Dragons didn't make their own hroar, which means that if their fear were Maiarin, their incarnation would've been a unique case: Morgoth was never spoken of as having created empty bodies to be possessed by corrupted Maiar spirits. Though this doesn't rule out the possibility, I think that if it had happened this way, it would be uncharacteristic of JRRT to leave it unexplained.
Not necessarily. He did not clearly explain the origins or the natures of Ents and Eagles (the big talking variety).

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Unless there is some textual indication that they were Maiar there's simply no solid argument. You can make comparisons and draw parallels all you want, but in the end that's all you'll have. Granted, it's a very real possibility, but no more likely than Goldberry being Yavanna.
It's no less solid than assuming that they did not based upon lack of direct textual evidence. While they are not explicit statements comparisons and parallels from the text are evidence.

And it is much more likely than Goldberry being Yavanna. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Dragons are explicitly spoken of in the text as having spirits in them. If they weren't Maiar then what were they?

And before you say elves, let me remind you that very few elves could do the things that dragons could do, the beclouding of minds and ensnaring of wills for instance. Most of the elves who did seem to possess such power are accounted for: Feanor, Finrod, and Galadriel are the only ones I can remember off the top of my head. I have a hard time believing that there were that many renegade elvish souls that powerful that Morgoth could stuff into Dragons.
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