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Thingol · 03-03-2002, 05:37 PM

It never says anywhere that Melkor let any of his power pass into the Balrogs. Everyone is still describing a fight between a Balrog and a Dragon in physical terms. If the Dragon clawed the Balrog, or if the Balrog could penetrate the Dragon's hide. In the scene where Gandalf fights the Balrog the only physical contact is their swords clashing once. They don't shoot fireballs or lightning bolts at each other. The real battle is on a plain that we can't see. This is where the real battle takes place. Obloquy pointed out to me in a different post that general combat that occurs during a battle is different than a duel between 2 great beings of power. Considering that Tolkien is one of the most descriptive author's of all time it is important to note that his description of the major duels (notice duels, like Glorfindel and the Nazgul, Gandalf and the Balrog, Gandalf and the Nazgul, Sam and Shelob, not battles like Pellanor Fields or the Hornburg) is lacking in physical description. This is not because Tolkien was not capable of it, it was a conscience choice. Notice when Sam fights Shelob, Tolkien only gives 3 lines to Sam's actual physical sword attack on Shelob. On the other hand he gives whole paragraphs to the light of the Phial of Galadriel. The spirit of Sam (enhanced by the phial and his closeness to death) sets the Phial's potency in motion and it blazes forth. It is the light of the phial that defeats Shelob, not Sam's strength. The same principles must be applied to a fight between a Balrog and a Dragon. Tolkien would not have spent time describing the physical fight between two such powerful creatures. He would have described the reflection on the physical world of the spiritual or magical battle that is taking place. Like the duel between Gandalf and the Balrog. Gandalf is a white light surrounded by a dark cloud. As I have mentioned before, the dragon is a being of pure physical power, made that way by Morgoth as to do the most damage to armies and such. The Balrogs are more akin to Sauron, beings of extreme spiritual potency. Tolkien clearly put more emphasis on the importance of spiritual power, that is why I believe the Balrog would win in a duel.

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ]

03-03-2002, 05:37 PM	#31
Thingol Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Long Island, New York Posts: 259	It never says anywhere that Melkor let any of his power pass into the Balrogs. Everyone is still describing a fight between a Balrog and a Dragon in physical terms. If the Dragon clawed the Balrog, or if the Balrog could penetrate the Dragon's hide. In the scene where Gandalf fights the Balrog the only physical contact is their swords clashing once. They don't shoot fireballs or lightning bolts at each other. The real battle is on a plain that we can't see. This is where the real battle takes place. Obloquy pointed out to me in a different post that general combat that occurs during a battle is different than a duel between 2 great beings of power. Considering that Tolkien is one of the most descriptive author's of all time it is important to note that his description of the major duels (notice duels, like Glorfindel and the Nazgul, Gandalf and the Balrog, Gandalf and the Nazgul, Sam and Shelob, not battles like Pellanor Fields or the Hornburg) is lacking in physical description. This is not because Tolkien was not capable of it, it was a conscience choice. Notice when Sam fights Shelob, Tolkien only gives 3 lines to Sam's actual physical sword attack on Shelob. On the other hand he gives whole paragraphs to the light of the Phial of Galadriel. The spirit of Sam (enhanced by the phial and his closeness to death) sets the Phial's potency in motion and it blazes forth. It is the light of the phial that defeats Shelob, not Sam's strength. The same principles must be applied to a fight between a Balrog and a Dragon. Tolkien would not have spent time describing the physical fight between two such powerful creatures. He would have described the reflection on the physical world of the spiritual or magical battle that is taking place. Like the duel between Gandalf and the Balrog. Gandalf is a white light surrounded by a dark cloud. As I have mentioned before, the dragon is a being of pure physical power, made that way by Morgoth as to do the most damage to armies and such. The Balrogs are more akin to Sauron, beings of extreme spiritual potency. Tolkien clearly put more emphasis on the importance of spiritual power, that is why I believe the Balrog would win in a duel. [ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ] __________________ Yet the lies that Melkor, the mighty and accursed, Morgoth Bauglir, the Power of Terror and of Hate, sowed in the hearts of Elves and Men are a seed that does not die and cannot be destroyed; and ever and anon it sprouts anew, and will bear dark fruit even unto the latest days.