[Halfir]

Mark 12_30: I loved your post and argument, but from a textual purity point of view I just can't see how you can gloss the words of Iluvatar regarding Melkor in the way that you do.

I have always felt that Melkor's betrayal of Iluvatar's vision stemmed from the fact that he - Iluvatar - alone - could create cf. Melkor's futile search for the Flame Imperishable. And this caused such bitterness that Melkor effectively rebelled. In that sense the Christian myth parallels perfectly. Moreover, for Melkor to then be told :"Behold your music! This is your minstrelsy; and each of you shall find contaiined herein,amid the design that I set before you, all those things which it may seem that he himself designed or added. And thou, Melkor, wilt discover all thge secret thoughts of thy mind, and wilt perceive that they are but a part of the whole and tributary to its glory."is to further embitter an already embittered spirit.

Not being a Christian I have great philosophical difficulty with the concept of free will, and have yet to be persuaded by Christian apologists of its validity. While the Iluvatar/Melkor antithesis need not be seen simply as a God/Lucifer parallell, the similarity is undoubtedly there. Still, I digress.

My point is that I think Piosenniel's point can be argued in the context of the Tolkien text - particulalrly in the Ainulindale, whereas I do not seed textual support for the position that you have taken. Perhaps you could elaborate further? However, I congratulate you on an excellent post in a splendid thread that Piosenniel has started.