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The magic that we see invested in objects (palantiri, rings, etc.) is just that: invested.
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I am afraid you missunderstude me. What I was saying was that power invested in palantir, rings, etc. can be "claimed" only as far as you have power yourself. I don't think I connected the learning part of magic with the magic items part at all. They are completely unrelated. You may, though, need to practice using an item to relize its full potential and the skill to make an item must be learned, but that is completely different from the existance of "learned" magic which PanMan has apparently proved conclusively.
Consiquently, you said
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I understand what you say, and I agree with some of it (the evil in occultic magic), but with other parts I will always disagree. I do not believe that there is any form of learned magic in Middle Earth
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and then
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We can now say with confidence that ME magic can be learned
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don't you find this in the least bit irronic? [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
Anyway, if its proven now, is this thread now pointless?
[ March 22, 2003: Message edited by: Salocin ]