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Frodo Baggins · 03-12-2003, 07:16 AM

There is not a shred of evidence that Saruman was ever Sauron's servant. Saruman wanted to compete with Sauron.

He fortified Isengard to compete with Barad-dur. He had his own personal army of orcs to compete with Sauron's orcs. If you will remember in reading TTT the mountain orcs that are with the Uruk-hai that capture Merry and Pippin suggested a few times taking the Hobbits to 'Lugburz' which if I remember correctly is their word for Barad-dur. Saruman, you will remember, even made his own Ring while he was looking for the One, He wanted the One for himself. The ring he made was just a holdover until the One was found.

Speaking of Olorin, the fact that Cirdan knew who Gandalf REALLY was while Sauron and the other guys (i.e. Ringwraiths and the Balrog who was a Maiar as well) had a little trouble with figuring out our Grey Pilgrim shows Cirdan has more insight than he's given credit for.

By the way, Scott. That's an interesting point. Because the two of them both had a Palantir they probably were engaged in a contest of wills. That may be what brought about the strangthening of Isengard. Denethor probably had a small struggle of wills with Sauron as well, but mortals are weaker.

03-12-2003, 07:16 AM	#10
Frodo Baggins Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Bag-End, Under-Hill, Hobbiton-across-the Water Posts: 606	There is not a shred of evidence that Saruman was ever Sauron's servant. Saruman wanted to compete with Sauron. He fortified Isengard to compete with Barad-dur. He had his own personal army of orcs to compete with Sauron's orcs. If you will remember in reading TTT the mountain orcs that are with the Uruk-hai that capture Merry and Pippin suggested a few times taking the Hobbits to 'Lugburz' which if I remember correctly is their word for Barad-dur. Saruman, you will remember, even made his own Ring while he was looking for the One, He wanted the One for himself. The ring he made was just a holdover until the One was found. Speaking of Olorin, the fact that Cirdan knew who Gandalf REALLY was while Sauron and the other guys (i.e. Ringwraiths and the Balrog who was a Maiar as well) had a little trouble with figuring out our Grey Pilgrim shows Cirdan has more insight than he's given credit for. By the way, Scott. That's an interesting point. Because the two of them both had a Palantir they probably were engaged in a contest of wills. That may be what brought about the strangthening of Isengard. Denethor probably had a small struggle of wills with Sauron as well, but mortals are weaker. __________________ "I'm your huckleberry....that's just my game."