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Ancalagon'sFire · 05-06-2002, 06:04 PM

I fully understand the 'giving of free will' as a gift from Eru to the Ainur. Certainly the comparison is inevitable between the Authors own beliefs and comprehension of 'free will' as a gift from our (his) creator, however, if we (or the Ainur) have no benchmark for knowing wrong or commiting acts of evil, where then does that dissent originally stem from. Is it from the creator?

Surely Melkor, as with any who knows his creator, would only wish to please and seek favour. It must be remembered that;

quote:
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In the beginning Eru, the One, who....., made the Ainur of his thought.
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Sil.

So we know that they (The Ainur) were from his mind, of his creation, in his likeness!

Yet, we know that even before the music of the Ainur, Melkor was already spoiled or corrupt;

quote:
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Out of the deeps of Ea she (Varda) came to the aid of Manwe; for Melkor she knew from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated her.
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Sil.

Yet, how does one truly explain the path Melkor walked? Well, this quote from the Ainulindale sums up my arguement, though it is up to each individual to decide for themselves;

quote:
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for each comprehended only that part of the mind of Iluvatar from which he came, and in understanding of their brethern they grew but slowly
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Sil.

So Melkor, derived from the thought of Iluvatar, was given the greatest powers, but immediately began to sow discord within the Music from his own imaginings. This is the crux of my thinking on this matter, that these changes were, by design, within Iluvatar himself and maifested by Melkor. He was chosen to cause discord, for this was as Iluvatar meant it to be.

quote:
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Then the themes of Iluvatar shall be played aright, and take being in the moment of their utterance, for all shall fully understand HIS INTENT IN THEIR PART, and each shall know the comprehension of each, and Iluvatar shall give to their thoughts the secret fire, being well pleased
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Melkor might be considered by some, a 'Patsy'. He played out Iluvatars part for him to the letter. His (Melkor) was the fate of creating discord because he was the incarnation of one aspect of Iluvatars persona.

And, having just read all this back to myself, I realise now that I need to get out more! [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

05-06-2002, 06:04 PM	#3
Ancalagon'sFire Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 41	I fully understand the 'giving of free will' as a gift from Eru to the Ainur. Certainly the comparison is inevitable between the Authors own beliefs and comprehension of 'free will' as a gift from our (his) creator, however, if we (or the Ainur) have no benchmark for knowing wrong or commiting acts of evil, where then does that dissent originally stem from. Is it from the creator? Surely Melkor, as with any who knows his creator, would only wish to please and seek favour. It must be remembered that; quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the beginning Eru, the One, who....., made the Ainur of his thought. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sil. So we know that they (The Ainur) were from his mind, of his creation, in his likeness! Yet, we know that even before the music of the Ainur, Melkor was already spoiled or corrupt; quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Out of the deeps of Ea she (Varda) came to the aid of Manwe; for Melkor she knew from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated her. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sil. Yet, how does one truly explain the path Melkor walked? Well, this quote from the Ainulindale sums up my arguement, though it is up to each individual to decide for themselves; quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- for each comprehended only that part of the mind of Iluvatar from which he came, and in understanding of their brethern they grew but slowly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sil. So Melkor, derived from the thought of Iluvatar, was given the greatest powers, but immediately began to sow discord within the Music from his own imaginings. This is the crux of my thinking on this matter, that these changes were, by design, within Iluvatar himself and maifested by Melkor. He was chosen to cause discord, for this was as Iluvatar meant it to be. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then the themes of Iluvatar shall be played aright, and take being in the moment of their utterance, for all shall fully understand HIS INTENT IN THEIR PART, and each shall know the comprehension of each, and Iluvatar shall give to their thoughts the secret fire, being well pleased -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Melkor might be considered by some, a 'Patsy'. He played out Iluvatars part for him to the letter. His (Melkor) was the fate of creating discord because he was the incarnation of one aspect of Iluvatars persona. And, having just read all this back to myself, I realise now that I need to get out more! [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] __________________ Threads you should make a point of reading!