[Legolas]

Kronos -

one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever.

Tolkien would not explore the 'possibilities' if it was not 'possible'. Others, maybe - not Tolkien. Note that I've never said that Gandalf would definitely beat him - I've only stated that it's possible. Gandalf might have conquered him; Sauron might've conquered Gandalf. It could go either way. The 'might be expected' is speaking from a reader's point of view - he was the only character an attentive reader would expect, and Tolkien confirms this by even describing the balance (and also how Galadriel and Elrond would have to resort to other means were they even to consider it). If one were to count Gandalf's posession of the Ring as a disadvantage, one would still further note that Gandalf too is at a disadvantage as he is in restricted in his present form (at the time of the War of the Ring).

I don't have any problem with anyone disagreeing, but make posts about your reasoning - not about the other person. Ad hominem attacks aren't welcome here.

Elfstone, you said in your second to last post:

I fail to see where
quote:
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Tolkien said Gandalf could beat Sauron
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^ This is where I got the notion that you thought Gandalf couldn't beat Sauron. I'm not sure you what else you could've meant by that, but in your last post you said

quote:
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Tolkien *did* say Gandalf could beat Sauron. It could go the other way too, but the fact remains, Gandalf could beat Sauron. He had the ability to. He could have. Tolkien said so; Tolkien created this world and decides such things. How is this disputed?
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Unless someone else has been posting and deleting before I could read it, no one is disputing that Gandalf could defeat Sauron. Assuming that you mean me, I'm pretty sure that one of the things you didn't quote from my last post was

So if I understand correctly, you think Gandalf could do it, but that it's not definite (i.e. Sauron could also defeat Gandalf).

If this is the case, we're in agreement.