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Old 02-11-2004, 11:28 AM   #99
Lyta_Underhill
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I'm not sure if this completely addresses the fine points of your last post, davem, but I thought it an interesting reflection that might be pertinent here, even if it is written to illustrate another incident from LOTR, Pippin's stealing and use of the Palantir.

from the article "Peter, Pippin and the Palantir" at hollywoodjesus.com:
Quote:
Second, and a little less obvious, is the fact that when we transgress -- "fall", if you're Boyens and Walsh, or "sin" if you're Tolkien -- we've no one to blame but ourselves. Pippin wants to claim that he "had no notion" of what he was doing; but Gandalf chides him, "Oh yes, you had. You knew you were behaving wrongly and foolishly; and you told yourself so, though you did not listen." So the problem with sin is not in knowing the difference between right and wrong, but purely in the doing. As the Apostle Paul notes, we are "without excuse."
Quote:
Was Mani right, evil is an external force, which is too powerful for us to resist, - however hard we try we will be broken by it in the end ( which begs the question, why even bother to struggle against it in the first place), or was Boethius right, & 'sin' a human failing, a weakness, a giving in, preferring our own satisfaction over the willed pattern of the Universe.
I suppose I can't come down on one side or the other, either, as I would think both factors have an effect on what one does in the end. (Not that I have a great grasp of Manichean vs. Boethian views!). But what Gandalf said to Pippin regarding the Palantir I think could also have been said to Frodo regarding the Ring. Gandalf made sure Pippin did not come into further contact with the Palantir rather than heaping blame upon him. He shows understanding but a firm hand. So those who knew what happened at Sammath Naur showed understanding and did not blame Frodo. But, to different extents, I'm sure both Pippin and Frodo must go over in their mind what drove them to their acts. (This is not to equate the acts but to illustrate the nature of the hobbits' fall to an urge to do something they know is wrong.) I hope that comes across as I wished! If not, I blame my fuzzed out brain, which is part of me, so I must, in the end, blame myself!

Cheers!
Lyta
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