[Dininziliel]

Dain writes: [quote] I think you are being a bit unfair to Boromir. He was a bit of a loner in the Fellowship because he was the only representative of his people and the rest were friends already (bar Gimli, but Legolas seemed to fit in). [QUOTE]

What was Aragorn ... chopped liver? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Dain continues:

If we hear about his exploits in Gondor, he was not selfish, necessarily, but proud and headstrong, and a very valiant warrior and beloved captain. He was just overcome by fear and years of constant fighting with little or no hope, and then the thought of sending a Hobbit (something he'd never seen before, but looked like a child) into Mordor with it seemed like a terrible idea to him. He was looking for a way to save his people, and I think that's how the ring got to him, not because he thougth only of himself and not of others--on the contrary he was always thinking of Gondor.

and Hilde writes:

Whoa, I don't agree that Boromir didn't look past his own desires.

Yes, Boromir is concerned about Gondor, but not quite to the altruistic extent portrayed in the movie.

Let me amend my previous post's statement slightly ...
The glory of Gondor was Boromir's [I]personal agenda[I]. He was undeniably brave and valiant, but he was undeniably afflicted by envy, pride, and vanity. Refer to "The Council of Elrond" ...

...a hundred and ten days I have journeyed all alone

so he has been in isolation for a fair amount of time. (This addresses the solitary aspect in common w/Gollum mentioned earlier.)

Then there is his recitation of Faramir's recurrent dream, which Boromir had only once, and although both the dream and their father supported Faramir to go to Rivendell, Boromir usurped Faramir's appointed task. Listen to his choice of words and what they imply about his personality:

[quote] Therefore my brother, seeing how desperate was our need, was eager to heed the dream and seek for Imladris; but since the way was full of doubt and danger, I took the journey upon myself. Loth was my father to give me leave, and long have I wandered by roads forgotten, seeking the house of Elrond, of which many had heard, but few knew where it lay. [QUOTE] There's a note of overweening pride and a bit of an inferiority complex. He seems almost obsessed with proving himself. He's also whining a bit. If anyone has a right to sing the blues, it's Aragorn, who does relate his case. But the tone is markedly different--no whining or pride.

Then we see his doubt and suspicion of Aragorn's claim--which, unlike his skepticism about the hobbits, is unjustified.

I was not sent to beg any boon, but to seek only the meaning of a riddle,' answered Boromir proudly. 'Yet we are hard preseed, and the Sword of Elendil would be a help beyond our hope--if such a thing could indeed return out of the shadows of the apst.' He looked again at Aragorn, and doubt was in his eyes.

This does not seem all that important until you read the appendix. Here we learn the background behind why Boromir looked at Aragorn with suspicion at Rivendell. In fact, to Boromir, Aragorn is an actual threat. Check out the section in Appendix A toward the end of "The Stewards" that begins with "Ecthelion II, son of Turgon ..." When you figure out who Thorongil was, and considering how Boromir felt about his father you begin to get a different picture of Boromir. In the book, he is not quite the lovable guy Sean Bean played so very well (best death scene of all time, IMO).

The last part of this section of Appendix A says:

...Boromir, five years the elder, beloved by his father, was like him in face and pride, but in little else. Rather he was a man after the sort of King Earnur of old [who went off to battle Sauron mano a mano and was never heard of again, leaving Gondor without a king], taking no wife and delighting chiefly in arms; fearless and strong, but caring little for lore, save the tales of old battles.

Again, note the implication of being a loner--no wife.

It then talks about Faramir saying a little further on:

[QUOTE] ... by many in those days his courage was judged less than his brother's. But it was not so, except that he did not seek glory in danger without a purpose.[QUOTE]

At one point, Boromir urges his father to renounce stewardship and claim kingship of Gondor. Even Denethor sees the hubris in this and chides Boromir by saying that "10,000 years is not enough time" to weaken the oath of Stewards of Gondor; other, lesser houses may do such things, but not those whose heritage is Numenor. (Maybe someone knows where this is? I just saw the whole quote last night, but for the life of me, I cannot find it now!)

There is also mention in one of the reference books to LotR of Denethor and the preceding stewards scorning the possibility of Isildur's heir (whomever he might down through the generations) resuming kingship. Probably because they felt they had stayed faithful to Gondor while its kings abandoned Gondor either for vainglorious reasons like Earnur or the heirs of Isildur hid out with the elves and then left to run off with the Dunedain up north.

At any rate, no ... Boromir was not an evil man, but, yes ... he had a weakness and it was pride and desire for glory through power (kingship, being the "bossy brother" cited in Appendix A, etc.). This was how he did not see past his own desires and this is what he had in common with Gollum.

I know it seems mean to liken Boromir to Gollum, but evil is an equal opportunity slavemaster. And, again, we're talking about the book Boromir.

I tried to clean up the messy quote separations. I've got the hang of cut/paste/copy etc., but dial-up is heck! I apologize for the crazy quiltedness.

Peace.

[ February 20, 2003: Message edited by: dininziliel ]