The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post

littlemanpoet · 05-31-2002, 10:04 AM

Hi Mark

I have no proof for my speculations on the Elves' ultimate end. But:

Being Children of Iluvatar as much as are the Atani, my sense is that their spirits would continue beyond an End of Ea. As long as there is an Ea, to it they are bound in spirit and body. This does run counter to Elrond's implications when he says that Aragron dooms Arwen to a separation from Elrond (I don't have the quote here) for all time (?). My guess is that Elrond speaks only of what he knows, and Tolkien would have them last beyond Ea in spirit.

I'm not sure what you imagine the Elves switching over to. If you imply that they will finally be united in their doom with Men, I don't see that as artificial precisely because it follows with the nature of spirits, which Tolkien said are no different between Men and Elves.

The Lamps came before the Trees. I believe they existed for about 10,000 years, too. I could be wrong on that... The twilight over Middle Earth lasted for the duration of the ages of Lamps and Trees. I don't recall whether the Trees were born out of the Lamps, but I think so. I never thought of the two Trees as signifying the two trees of Eden. I don't think Tolkien intended that, either. He intended them to resemble the light of the Sun and Moon; more mythical and less connotative of the Old Testament, I'd say.

05-31-2002, 10:04 AM	#23
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Hi Mark I have no proof for my speculations on the Elves' ultimate end. But: Being Children of Iluvatar as much as are the Atani, my sense is that their spirits would continue beyond an End of Ea. As long as there is an Ea, to it they are bound in spirit and body. This does run counter to Elrond's implications when he says that Aragron dooms Arwen to a separation from Elrond (I don't have the quote here) for all time (?). My guess is that Elrond speaks only of what he knows, and Tolkien would have them last beyond Ea in spirit. I'm not sure what you imagine the Elves switching over to. If you imply that they will finally be united in their doom with Men, I don't see that as artificial precisely because it follows with the nature of spirits, which Tolkien said are no different between Men and Elves. The Lamps came before the Trees. I believe they existed for about 10,000 years, too. I could be wrong on that... The twilight over Middle Earth lasted for the duration of the ages of Lamps and Trees. I don't recall whether the Trees were born out of the Lamps, but I think so. I never thought of the two Trees as signifying the two trees of Eden. I don't think Tolkien intended that, either. He intended them to resemble the light of the Sun and Moon; more mythical and less connotative of the Old Testament, I'd say.