[The Saucepan Man]

Yes, I agree with what you are saying, Child of the 7th Age. There most probably were denizens of the Third Age that had no real understanding of Eru and the Valar and so neither accepted nor rejected them. And the inhabitants of the Shire (on the whole) do seem likely candidates in this regard.

This fits in with what I was saying about beliefs being eroded over time, as the more direct connection with Eru and the Valar diminished. In the First Age and (largely) the Second Age, most ME inhabitants would have regarded the existence of the Valar (and by association, Eru) as a matter of fact, since there was a close interaction with those who had known the Valar (ie the Elves). As the Third Age progressed, and Elves became more reclusive and other communities grew up who had little contact with them (eg Rohan and the Shire), then that direct knowledge would have decreased. This process would then have accelerated as the Elves passed to the West. ME became a world of Men, who had no direct knowledge of Eru or the Valar and whose belief would therefore have had to have relied on faith rather than knowledge.

The good guys on Middle-earth are not distingished by their beliefs. Rather they are distinguished by their actions.

Absolutely. But, in terms of the original question, were their actions guided by any set of moral or faith-based imperatives handed down by Eru? My argument is that no moral imperatives (no killing, no stealing etc) were required because they would have evolved naturally, as communities came together, in order to ensure the survival of those communities. And no faith-based imperatives (obedience to Eru etc) were required because, originally, the inhabitants of ME had direct knowledge of the existence of Eru and the Valar and so either accepted or rejected them. As that direct knowledge diminished, it became a matter of faith, albeit derived from that original knowledge (ie teachings handed down from one generation to another). Where those teachings wee rejected, or where they were not (for whatever reason) passed on, then societies would have been free to develop their own beliefs.

I hope that makes sense. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Edit:

But they did know that they would go to the halls of Mandos. They probably had more certainty than us where they would go.

Well, Elves certainly knew their fate. But the same could not be said for Men, just as (absent faith) it cannot be said for us today.

[ April 25, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]