The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - 10 Commandments for Middle-Earth?

Child of the 7th Age · 04-23-2003, 07:01 PM

Bekah and Saucepan Man,

It wasn't so much a question of believing or not believing, rather it was a question of knowing or not knowing. At least that was true by the late Third Age.

Certainly the Elves knew about the Valar and Eru. And Faramir's practice of standing and facing the West before meals also implies a knowledge, at least of the Valar, on the part of those Men descended from the Edain.

But what about the other peoples of Middle-earth, the great majority of people who lived at that time? Let's take the hobbits whom I'm most familiar with. Frodo and Sam were actually unusual in making their pleas to Elbereth. It almost seems that they grew in that knowledge as their journey progressed.

Shippey discusses the fact that Tolkien wanted to explore a world where people had to fight and give of themselves without really having assurances about what came after death. That is the situation most of the residents of Middle-earth were in. They had to go by the little voice inside them, because there weren't any formal "religious teachers or institutions or beliefs." By the Third Age, there were no temples or mounts to Eru as there had been on Numenor. Most of the hobbits had never heard the true tales of Elvish Lore. Indeed, until Bilbo translated them, they were not available in Westron in any organized way.

The good guys on Middle-earth are not distingished by their beliefs. Rather they are distinguished by their actions. In one of the Letters Tolkien states that, by the time of LotR, the good guys do not have formal worship. Instead the chief way of showing support for the cause of goodness was physical opposition to the incarnate figure of Sauron. It is deeds that formed the core of a "good" person in Middle-earth, not belief per se.

Tolkien also mentions in a footnote to this same letter that only a few hobbits familiar with Elves had any real idea about the Valar and Eru. Most simply hadn't heard and didn't know.

To tell the truth, I kind of like the idea of a world where people are judged and represented by what they do, and not just the words that come out of their mouths, since the latter may or may not reflect what is actually in their heart.

Cami/Sharon

[ April 23, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

04-23-2003, 07:01 PM	#43
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Bekah and Saucepan Man, It wasn't so much a question of believing or not believing, rather it was a question of knowing or not knowing. At least that was true by the late Third Age. Certainly the Elves knew about the Valar and Eru. And Faramir's practice of standing and facing the West before meals also implies a knowledge, at least of the Valar, on the part of those Men descended from the Edain. But what about the other peoples of Middle-earth, the great majority of people who lived at that time? Let's take the hobbits whom I'm most familiar with. Frodo and Sam were actually unusual in making their pleas to Elbereth. It almost seems that they grew in that knowledge as their journey progressed. Shippey discusses the fact that Tolkien wanted to explore a world where people had to fight and give of themselves without really having assurances about what came after death. That is the situation most of the residents of Middle-earth were in. They had to go by the little voice inside them, because there weren't any formal "religious teachers or institutions or beliefs." By the Third Age, there were no temples or mounts to Eru as there had been on Numenor. Most of the hobbits had never heard the true tales of Elvish Lore. Indeed, until Bilbo translated them, they were not available in Westron in any organized way. The good guys on Middle-earth are not distingished by their beliefs. Rather they are distinguished by their actions. In one of the Letters Tolkien states that, by the time of LotR, the good guys do not have formal worship. Instead the chief way of showing support for the cause of goodness was physical opposition to the incarnate figure of Sauron. It is deeds that formed the core of a "good" person in Middle-earth, not belief per se. Tolkien also mentions in a footnote to this same letter that only a few hobbits familiar with Elves had any real idea about the Valar and Eru. Most simply hadn't heard and didn't know. To tell the truth, I kind of like the idea of a world where people are judged and represented by what they do, and not just the words that come out of their mouths, since the latter may or may not reflect what is actually in their heart. Cami/Sharon [ April 23, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.