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***Mithadan*** · 02-23-2001, 12:19 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist
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Re: That quote ...

Struggling to strictly interpret JRRT's words, it appears that "fate" was established by the Music and possibly by the Vision. Although arguably the Music ultimately derives from Iluvatar, JRRT stresses that the Valar possessed free will in the making of the Music. Indeed, he notes that here, his mythology diverges significantly from Christian theology. In Ainulindale, Melkor exercises his free will by creating disruption in the Music, rendering the world marred from its very beginning, while in Judeo-Christian tradition it is Adam's acceptance of the apple in violation of the dictates of God that creates the "Fall". See Letters, #212 (fascinating letter from a philosophical standpoint). Thus in the case of Arda, the marring and the resulting evil is inherent to the nature of the world. There was no "Eden" in Middle Earth.

Thus the Ainur possess free will outside of Arda but are bound into Arda's history and "fate" when they enter as Valar and Maiar. The stream of history or fate derives from the Music and the Vision and does not result from the direct intervention of Iluvatar into the affairs of Arda.

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

02-23-2001, 12:19 PM	#33
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,392	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist Posts: 646</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: That quote ... Struggling to strictly interpret JRRT's words, it appears that "fate" was established by the Music and possibly by the Vision. Although arguably the Music ultimately derives from Iluvatar, JRRT stresses that the Valar possessed free will in the making of the Music. Indeed, he notes that here, his mythology diverges significantly from Christian theology. In Ainulindale, Melkor exercises his free will by creating disruption in the Music, rendering the world marred from its very beginning, while in Judeo-Christian tradition it is Adam's acceptance of the apple in violation of the dictates of God that creates the "Fall". See Letters, #212 (fascinating letter from a philosophical standpoint). Thus in the case of Arda, the marring and the resulting evil is inherent to the nature of the world. There was no "Eden" in Middle Earth. Thus the Ainur possess free will outside of Arda but are bound into Arda's history and "fate" when they enter as Valar and Maiar. The stream of history or fate derives from the Music and the Vision and does not result from the direct intervention of Iluvatar into the affairs of Arda. --Mithadan-- "The Silmarils with living light were kindled clear, and waxing bright shone like stars that in the North above the reek of earth leap forth." </p> __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.