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bombur · 09-22-2002, 01:17 PM

I agree with you kalevala. Might add to the similarities of theese legend some things though... like for example thet in kalevala as well, the kullervos sister is first to find out the truth and drown oneself. Kullervo also like turin in killing Beren (Beleg I meant... latter correction.) comits deed of evil against ones fosterfamily for imagined/out-of-proportionally small wronging. As Turin finds a new home in nargothrond and brings death there, Kullervo only believed to be orphan and finds ones family only to bring death to them similarily.

Basically there is only two differences in the legends. Turin is fostered by basically good people and never meets ones own family again.

However Kullervo/Turin is just pretty much the clearest example. There are about million minor similarities between kalevala and silmarillion... The main battle is being fought over items of power, it is woman who makes the mythical trip to death to bring loved one back, the item is stolen from the evil by heroes, the evil sends its minions against the southern lands of the good... etc. etc. etc.

In my opinion however the underlying structure is even more similar. The rules of "magic" are very similar, though I would not totally agree with the essay in the link you posted. In both myths "magic" is centered on craft and skill though names, songs and birthroots are even more important in kalevala for making magic. Mythic scale is rather similar, though silmarillion is much more theistic and more influenced by christian myth.

Also some other examples might be worth consideration. My favourite is this; dwarwes have direct counteparts in the scandinavian-germanic myth, Trolls in the germanic-anglosaxon myth. Eleves have strong similarity to anglosaxon faerie and perhaps some influence from scanidinavian älvar. Hobbits have taken some influence from celtic myth. It seems to me that orcs rather largely come from finnish tradition. Finnish consept of elf (haltija) existed in many kinds of places and forms. Some places had benevolent eleves some had hostile. If you make some kind of synthesis from Finnish eleves living in the nastier places like underground, underbridges, marshponds, cliffs etc... you pretty much get an orc, I´d say.

JH

PS. If you want, you can find short overview of the content of Kalevala here http://www.finlit.fi/kalevala/finfoeng8.htm
The whole epic is 50 poems. Kullervos saga is poems 31-36.

[ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: bombur ]

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: bombur ]

09-22-2002, 01:17 PM	#3
bombur Wight Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: finland Posts: 126	I agree with you kalevala. Might add to the similarities of theese legend some things though... like for example thet in kalevala as well, the kullervos sister is first to find out the truth and drown oneself. Kullervo also like turin in killing Beren (Beleg I meant... latter correction.) comits deed of evil against ones fosterfamily for imagined/out-of-proportionally small wronging. As Turin finds a new home in nargothrond and brings death there, Kullervo only believed to be orphan and finds ones family only to bring death to them similarily. Basically there is only two differences in the legends. Turin is fostered by basically good people and never meets ones own family again. However Kullervo/Turin is just pretty much the clearest example. There are about million minor similarities between kalevala and silmarillion... The main battle is being fought over items of power, it is woman who makes the mythical trip to death to bring loved one back, the item is stolen from the evil by heroes, the evil sends its minions against the southern lands of the good... etc. etc. etc. In my opinion however the underlying structure is even more similar. The rules of "magic" are very similar, though I would not totally agree with the essay in the link you posted. In both myths "magic" is centered on craft and skill though names, songs and birthroots are even more important in kalevala for making magic. Mythic scale is rather similar, though silmarillion is much more theistic and more influenced by christian myth. Also some other examples might be worth consideration. My favourite is this; dwarwes have direct counteparts in the scandinavian-germanic myth, Trolls in the germanic-anglosaxon myth. Eleves have strong similarity to anglosaxon faerie and perhaps some influence from scanidinavian älvar. Hobbits have taken some influence from celtic myth. It seems to me that orcs rather largely come from finnish tradition. Finnish consept of elf (haltija) existed in many kinds of places and forms. Some places had benevolent eleves some had hostile. If you make some kind of synthesis from Finnish eleves living in the nastier places like underground, underbridges, marshponds, cliffs etc... you pretty much get an orc, I´d say. JH PS. If you want, you can find short overview of the content of Kalevala here http://www.finlit.fi/kalevala/finfoeng8.htm The whole epic is 50 poems. Kullervos saga is poems 31-36. [ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: bombur ] [ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: bombur ]