The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Gollum's Purpose/Motives (To Stir Things Up)

***Mithadan*** · 02-14-2001, 08:59 AM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: If this is good...

Quote:
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"Behind that there was something else at work, beyond any design of the Ring-maker. I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker."
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This should not be confused with some conscious will of the Ring itself. Gandalf seems to be implying some action of "fate" here.

Quote:
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"There was more than one power at work, Frodo. The Ring was trying to get back to its master. It had slipped from Isisldur's hand and betrayed him; then when a chance came it caught poor Deagol, and he was murdered; and after that Gollum and it had devoured him...So now, whe its master was awake once more and sending out his dark thought from Mirkwood, it abandoned Gollum."
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This is subject to interpretation. Sauron was exercising his control over the Ring in an effort to have its location revealed.

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"A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. It may slip off treacherously, but it's keeper never abandons it...It was not Gollum, Frodo, but the Ring itself that decided things. The Ring left him." (Gandalf to Frodo, FoTR The Shadow of the Past)
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Here again, Sauron was calling out to the Ring. While the Ring may have slipped off Gollum's hand, it may have been in response to Sauron seeking it.

With respect to the Nazguls, I may have worded my argument clumsily. The wraiths are linked to the Ring and generally aware of its proximity. The Ring tends to corrupt its wearer and generate a lust or desire to claim or use it. The Nazgul seem to have some ability to amplify this influence on the bearer. Thus Frodo tells Strider it was an accident that the Ring slipped on at the Prancing Pony and Strider responds "I wonder".

The example of Isildur is most difficult to reconcile with my argument. Sauron had been vanquished and presumably was not extending his power to the Ring or otherwise. Yet the Ring slips off in the presence of Sauron's "troops". Tough issue raised here and I was aware of it when I made my post. Could the Wraiths have been involved in this event (and possibly been the organizing force behind the attack which appears to have been well-thought out and planned)? What happened to the Wraiths after Sauron was defeated at the end of the Second age? Were they even around then?

--Mithadan--
"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

02-14-2001, 08:59 AM	#62
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,397	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Spirit of Mist Posts: 603</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/onering.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: If this is good... Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Behind that there was something else at work, beyond any design of the Ring-maker. I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This should not be confused with some conscious will of the Ring itself. Gandalf seems to be implying some action of "fate" here. Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There was more than one power at work, Frodo. The Ring was trying to get back to its master. It had slipped from Isisldur's hand and betrayed him; then when a chance came it caught poor Deagol, and he was murdered; and after that Gollum and it had devoured him...So now, whe its master was awake once more and sending out his dark thought from Mirkwood, it abandoned Gollum." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is subject to interpretation. Sauron was exercising his control over the Ring in an effort to have its location revealed. Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A Ring of Power looks after itself, Frodo. It may slip off treacherously, but it's keeper never abandons it...It was not Gollum, Frodo, but the Ring itself that decided things. The Ring left him." (Gandalf to Frodo, FoTR The Shadow of the Past) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here again, Sauron was calling out to the Ring. While the Ring may have slipped off Gollum's hand, it may have been in response to Sauron seeking it. With respect to the Nazguls, I may have worded my argument clumsily. The wraiths are linked to the Ring and generally aware of its proximity. The Ring tends to corrupt its wearer and generate a lust or desire to claim or use it. The Nazgul seem to have some ability to amplify this influence on the bearer. Thus Frodo tells Strider it was an accident that the Ring slipped on at the Prancing Pony and Strider responds "I wonder". The example of Isildur is most difficult to reconcile with my argument. Sauron had been vanquished and presumably was not extending his power to the Ring or otherwise. Yet the Ring slips off in the presence of Sauron's "troops". Tough issue raised here and I was aware of it when I made my post. Could the Wraiths have been involved in this event (and possibly been the organizing force behind the attack which appears to have been well-thought out and planned)? What happened to the Wraiths after Sauron was defeated at the end of the Second age? Were they even around then? --Mithadan-- "The Silmarils with living light were kindled clear, and waxing bright shone like stars that in the North above the reek of earth leap forth." </p> __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.