[Elenhin]

Originally posted by Man-of-the-Wold:
<STRONG>[Maiar] did not necessarily enter Ea later then the Valar, since Tulkus came lastest of all, but in the mind of Iluvatar the Maiar had lesser status and might.</STRONG>

I should have made a difference between Arda and Ea in my post. Maiar (apparently Tulkas came with them) came later to Arda than the Valar, but nothing was said about when they (and Tulkas) came to Ea.

<STRONG>Other Maiar, who were also of Aule's people, but of more limited capacity and cunning than Sauron became the Balrogs...</STRONG>

"But [Melkor] was not alone. For of the Maiar many were drawn to his splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into his darkness; and others he corrupted afterwards to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. Dreadful among these sprits were the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror."
-Valaquenta

The Balrogs weren't (necessarily) of Aule's people. I have always read that passage so that the Balrogs were among those spirits that were drawn to Melkor in the days of his greatness - before his fall to evil, that is. That would make the Balrogs the original Maiar of Melkor (just like Osse and Uinen are Maiar of Ulmo). The passage alone doesn't really suggest that, but we know that of all the Valar Melkor was the closest to a fire-Vala, and it would make sense if the fire-Maiar were originally of his people.

<STRONG>Orcs were not Elves, dark or othewise. Although derived and bred over a long time from life forms that had been Elves, Orcs were the total antithesis and corruption of Elven spirit. They were corporeal demons, as the Balrogs were more spirit-like demons.</STRONG>

IF the Orcs were bred from corrupted Elves (which is not certain, but quite probable), then they continued to be Elves, no matter how badly they were corrupted (until Mannish/Maiarin blood was mixed to the Orc-kind).

(With "they continued to be Elves" I mean that their fate was that of the Elves - immortality, summons to Mandos and all that. Their physical appearance and genetic makeup was, of course, widely different.)

<STRONG>In a sense Elves were predetermined to be good. They were not supposed to have the choice to do evil. This is one reason, I submit for why the kinslaying by the Nolder caused the Curse of Mandos, in that Feanor and his followers (to one degree or another) had broken the natural order.</STRONG>

The Elves were more bound to the Music of the Ainur and there probably was more predetermination in their lives (some could also foresee these predetermined things), but that doesn't mean that they didn't have free will of their own. They were just as free to do evil as Men - they just weren't all corrupted right after they awoke in Cuivienen and that's why they're generally "better" than Men.

<STRONG>Men in later days, as they do still, would slaughter each other at will, without any such curse.</STRONG>

Elves didn't need a curse to slaughter others either. The first Kinslaying in Alqualonde was not a result of any curse. And as another example, Eol tried to kill his son (but hit his wife instead) without any curse on them.

[ January 04, 2002: Message edited by: Elenhin ]