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Kalimac · 11-18-2003, 12:22 AM

Also, in "The Passage of the Marshes" Sam does almost the same thing when thinking of Gollum. "Curse him! I wish he was choked!" For some reason I also associate the word "dratted" with Sam, but can't find it anywhere; it might just be my memory confusing it with something else.

My theory would be that the hobbits, and most of the characters, take "Curse" in its old-fashioned sense, meaning not a dirty word but, well, a real curse. Back in the day, it was considered very serious to even *say* a real curse out loud; I knew someone who researched Roman curse tablets (like the kind in the Aquae Sulis museum in Bath) and he absolutely refused to read any of them out loud, no matter that the curses had nothing to do with him personally. One of those just-in-case situations. Thus, when they say "There are no curses" or "Curse him" what they are doing is expressing their wish that something bad would happen to the person without actually taking the irreversible and very dangerous step of reciting a real curse, which again probably has nothing to do with obscene language and more to do with afflicting the cursee with something unpleasant. They just use the word "curse" as a stand-in for the real thing, which they don't necessarily really want.

Treebeard, I'm sure, knows some real curses that could have recited had he wanted to. Sam, eh, I'm not sure about him. I imagine all memory of that sort of thing was gone from the hobbits, and the "Curse him" expression is a relic. Sam probably doesn't know anything stronger than that.

Umm...seem to have diverged a little from the original question. No, I don't think the non-Orcish inhabitants of ME had obscenities in the same way that we do now, not so much from idealism as from the fact that the whole concept that the words that come out of your mouth can have serious effects on the world around you, and that just because you are alone or with a few friends doesn't mean that something else does not see or hear you. Granted, modern-day cursing is a poor stand-in for what it used to be, but it's hard to see ME people taking even that chance. Besides, why would they want to emulate the Orcs?

11-18-2003, 12:22 AM	#5
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Also, in "The Passage of the Marshes" Sam does almost the same thing when thinking of Gollum. "Curse him! I wish he was choked!" For some reason I also associate the word "dratted" with Sam, but can't find it anywhere; it might just be my memory confusing it with something else. My theory would be that the hobbits, and most of the characters, take "Curse" in its old-fashioned sense, meaning not a dirty word but, well, a real curse. Back in the day, it was considered very serious to even say a real curse out loud; I knew someone who researched Roman curse tablets (like the kind in the Aquae Sulis museum in Bath) and he absolutely refused to read any of them out loud, no matter that the curses had nothing to do with him personally. One of those just-in-case situations. Thus, when they say "There are no curses" or "Curse him" what they are doing is expressing their wish that something bad would happen to the person without actually taking the irreversible and very dangerous step of reciting a real curse, which again probably has nothing to do with obscene language and more to do with afflicting the cursee with something unpleasant. They just use the word "curse" as a stand-in for the real thing, which they don't necessarily really want. Treebeard, I'm sure, knows some real curses that could have recited had he wanted to. Sam, eh, I'm not sure about him. I imagine all memory of that sort of thing was gone from the hobbits, and the "Curse him" expression is a relic. Sam probably doesn't know anything stronger than that. Umm...seem to have diverged a little from the original question. No, I don't think the non-Orcish inhabitants of ME had obscenities in the same way that we do now, not so much from idealism as from the fact that the whole concept that the words that come out of your mouth can have serious effects on the world around you, and that just because you are alone or with a few friends doesn't mean that something else does not see or hear you. Granted, modern-day cursing is a poor stand-in for what it used to be, but it's hard to see ME people taking even that chance. Besides, why would they want to emulate the Orcs? __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.