OK, you suceeded in drawing me out one more time, phantom. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
We are veering off topic because we are discussing general aspects of the reading experience rather than the topic of this thread: psychological depth in Tolkien's characters. That is perhaps my fault for picking up on a general comment which you made, but it has nothing to do with me bringing up the concept of entertainment. You cannot sensibly discuss aspects of the reading experience without taking into account its primary objective.
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My point has never been about "enjoyment", "value", or "experience", my point has been about the reader's ability to recognize character depth (and character depth is what this thread is about).
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Yes, but my point is that these concepts are inextricably linked. You cannot consider them in isolation. Save in the limited area of education, we do not read novels solely for the purpose of trying to comprehend their characters. We read them to be entertained. Gaining an understanding of the characters is an aspect of the reading experience and one of the factors that may (or may not) contribute towards us being entertained by a book.
Phantom, you started by saying:
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"Detailed exploration" is necessary to give a character depth only when ... the reader is not talented enough to pick up on textual clues or come to any sort of conclusion without the author specifically telling them to.
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... and went on to explain your comment as follows:
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people who can come to logical conclusions based on what they read are certainly better readers than those that cannot.
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It was these blanket statements that I disagreed with.
But if you are simply saying that:
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some people will be better at making logical inferences about book characters from textual clues.
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... then I agree with you. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
And I'm bad at bowling too! [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]
So let's get back to psychological depth in Tolkien's characters. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
Edit: Fair enough, Sharkû. That's all from me on this issue.
[ 2:04 PM December 02, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]