The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Psychological depth in Tolkien's characters

davem · 11-19-2003, 05:04 AM

I think maybe part of the problem in finding depth in Tolkien's characters is that we don't really get exposed to the kind of struggle a lot of them go through - we're more used to the struggle of Boromir - 'Should I take & use the ring or not?'. There are characters who go through this kind of struggle, & we seem more convinced by them. But the other kind of struggle - Faramir's - of knowing what to do already, but struggling to find the inner strength to do it, is rarer these days, where moral absolutes are always questioned. We seem to think that once we know the right thing, we can just do it, no problem, because the real difficulty is in working out what the right thing is. Tolkien shows us that knowing the right thing to do is only the start - doing it is the struggle. This is Frodo's story, in essence - he knows he must destroy the Ring, his struggle is to do it. I think Faramir recognises a kindred spirit in Frodo, & so honours him. For Faramir to retain a sense of decency & respect for life, to retain his highest ideals, in the midst of a bloody war, which from his point of view at that time can only end in defeat is something that is both admirable & incredibly moving (and something Tolkien himself saw & struggled with personally, perhaps, in WW1). Faramir is 'fighting the Long Defeat', even though he knows that all he can hope for ('hope without guarantees', again) is 'defeat or fruitless victory', because evil will always arise again). But he still does it, because its right.

One of my greatest disappointments with the movie was the portrayal of Faramir - both sides seem too much alike, both, mentally at least, seem to be using the Ring already. It seems reduced to a battle between equally brutal & uncompromising sides, the only difference between them being the 'good' guys are better looking. We actually need a Faramir character, to see there is something worth fighting for, that Gondor is worthy of surviving. Faramir is just that - as I said, a living symbol of the survival of the highest Numenorean ideal. If Gondor can still produce men like Faramir, it is worth fighting & even dying for. I also think Frodo, in the state of hopelessness he has reached at that point, needs to see Faramir. He needs that inspiration. Like Merry, he has seen that there are things worth fighting for - he may not understand them at the time (though by the end I think he does) but he can know them & honour them.

11-19-2003, 05:04 AM	#75
davem Illustrious Ulair Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties Posts: 4,240	I think maybe part of the problem in finding depth in Tolkien's characters is that we don't really get exposed to the kind of struggle a lot of them go through - we're more used to the struggle of Boromir - 'Should I take & use the ring or not?'. There are characters who go through this kind of struggle, & we seem more convinced by them. But the other kind of struggle - Faramir's - of knowing what to do already, but struggling to find the inner strength to do it, is rarer these days, where moral absolutes are always questioned. We seem to think that once we know the right thing, we can just do it, no problem, because the real difficulty is in working out what the right thing is. Tolkien shows us that knowing the right thing to do is only the start - doing it is the struggle. This is Frodo's story, in essence - he knows he must destroy the Ring, his struggle is to do it. I think Faramir recognises a kindred spirit in Frodo, & so honours him. For Faramir to retain a sense of decency & respect for life, to retain his highest ideals, in the midst of a bloody war, which from his point of view at that time can only end in defeat is something that is both admirable & incredibly moving (and something Tolkien himself saw & struggled with personally, perhaps, in WW1). Faramir is 'fighting the Long Defeat', even though he knows that all he can hope for ('hope without guarantees', again) is 'defeat or fruitless victory', because evil will always arise again). But he still does it, because its right. One of my greatest disappointments with the movie was the portrayal of Faramir - both sides seem too much alike, both, mentally at least, seem to be using the Ring already. It seems reduced to a battle between equally brutal & uncompromising sides, the only difference between them being the 'good' guys are better looking. We actually need a Faramir character, to see there is something worth fighting for, that Gondor is worthy of surviving. Faramir is just that - as I said, a living symbol of the survival of the highest Numenorean ideal. If Gondor can still produce men like Faramir, it is worth fighting & even dying for. I also think Frodo, in the state of hopelessness he has reached at that point, needs to see Faramir. He needs that inspiration. Like Merry, he has seen that there are things worth fighting for - he may not understand them at the time (though by the end I think he does) but he can know them & honour them. __________________ “Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects."