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Dread Horseman
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Re: Balrogs DO have wings!!! Not.
Where's Mithadan? Have I become the designated pro-wing advocate?
Elenhin: an interesting and unique angle on a much dissected topic. However, in my view, it's at least as speculative (and probably more so) than other wing/no-wing arguments. Let's see if I can take things point by point without getting carried away with another whopper of a post.
Apologies
None needed on my part! This is the sort of thing that makes the board fun.
Early (wingless?) Balrogs vs. the LotR-era Balrog(s)
In my opinion there’s very little to be gained by comparing early
Book of Lost Tales Balrogs to the LotR Balrog. Take a stroll over to the New Silmarillion forum and look at
http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/u...c&f=8&t=000087A project ~~~~Revising the Fall of Gondolin</a> (if you dare! <img src=wink.gif ALT="
"> ) to see the kinds of headaches caused by trying to reconcile JRRT’s early Balrog legions with his later conceptions. I’ll also note here for the record that some of the quotes that pro-wingers use to support their position (“with winged speed” and “flying from Thangorodrim”) date from or after the publication of LotR.
Sizes
These numbers look like pure speculation to me. The chasm that the bridge spans is 50 feet
across, and the Second Hall seems to be portrayed as being longer than it is wide. I don’t think we can really make any meaningful deductions on the width of the hall, the chasm, or the Balrog’s wingspan. I don’t know enough about aerodynamics to know if the sizes you postulate are accurate or plausible (if any argument about such a thing as a Balrog can really be deemed plausible!), but I will make these points:
· The Chamber of Mazarbul, its doors, Moria, and Dwarvish works in general are not portrayed as cramped, confined spaces. As the Company approaches the room, they find themselves in a “wide corridor”, they enter through a door that is “high and flat-topped”, and they see that it is a “large” square chamber. The western door that they defend is large enough for trolls to bring battering “rams and hammers” to bear on it after it has been closed , and the eastern door that they exit through is opened and closed with “great iron rings”, hinting at a large size there, also. Remember that Smaug, inarguably much larger and with a greater wingspan than the Balrog, seemingly had no trouble negotiating most of the halls of Erebor, a lesser work compared to the mighty Khazad-dûm.
· Who says the Balrog “hid” its wings from the Company? When the door shatters during Gandalf’s first contest with it, he says, “Something dark as a cloud was blocking out all the light inside…” (c.f. in the previously linked thread references to comparisons of the winged Nazgûl steeds to “clouds”). Later, of course, its wings spread from wall to wall.
· The Balrog was “man-shaped” not “man-sized”. At the bridge, the Balrog “drew itself up to a great height” and there is the impression that it dwarfs Gandalf (who, remember, is standing in the middle of the bridge, at its highest point, while the Balrog is standing at its foot).
I give you credit for a new approach and interesting speculation, but I don’t think there’s convincing evidence here.
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Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000005>Mister Underhill</A> at: 7/12/01 1:23:24 pm