[Child of the 7th Age]

Davem,

I think the big question is What is the nature of Frodo's failure? More, surely, than simply failing to throw the ring into the fire. Does Tolkien mean that he failed to trust in a higher power, Illuvatar, the Wise, the Valar? Doesn't he take on the 'responsibility' for 'saving the world'? He convinces himself, by the end maybe, that the Ring is all there is, or all that matters. It replaces, for him, any 'higher'/spiritual power. He doesn't trust 'God' to put things right.

Frodo (& the others seduced by the Ring) seeks to 'save' himself by means of some worldly object, rather than by placing faith in The Authority (as Tolkien put it) beyond the world. I admit I'm fumbling at something now which I can't properly formulate as yet.

Your ideas are interesting but I still think we're not clearly hitting at what lies at the core of Frodo's failure to throw away the Ring. I am basing my argument on the material presented in Tolkien's letters as well as the author's overall attitudes about the nature of Man (and Elves!) and, most importantly, the general views presented in the Legendarium as a whole. The quote Helen gave above bears a second look.

Davem, in one sense, I must agree with you. By the end of the book, Frodo is completely unable to trust or perceive anything outside of the closed circle he is in, a circle that contains only himself and the Ring. This is true whether we are referring to the "Authority", Frodo's friendship with Sam, or even the natural world itself. Frodo is unable to perceive any of these basic truths. And there is no doubt that, speaking in regard to human history, Tolkien would have said that our main problems stem from man's inability to turn to the Authority and trust in Him to guide the results.

This inability to believe or trust is implicit in this scene in LotR, but it is not what the author has chosen to emphasize. Rather, the heart of the message lies in the flawed nature of Man. This same message comes out again and again throughout the entire Legendarium.

Simply put, there is no way Frodo could have won through on his own. The kind of complete belief and trust you are referring to simply doesn't exist in the hearts of men. This is true whether we're talking about the so-called pagan men of LotR (whose ethical example frankly outshines most of our own) or modern man who has, in Tolkien's view, the benefit of a fuller revelation.

The flawed nature of man is as true today as it was back in Middle-earth. Just as Helen quoted, we are incarnate creatures and we have limits. To think otherwise is folly!

I can cite quote after quote in the Letters that reinforces the view that Frodo, by himself, could not succeed. Here are just two more:

The 'Quest' was bound to fail as a piece of world-plan, and also was bound to end in disaster as the story of humble Frodo's development to the 'noble', his sanctification. Fail it would and did as far as Frodo considered alone was considered.

If you re-read all the passages dealing with Frodo and the Ring, I think you will see that not only was it quite impossible for him to surrender the Ring, in act or will, especially at its point of maximum power, but that this failure was adnumbrated from far back. He was honoured because he had accepted the burden voluntarily, and had then done all that was within his utmost physical and mental strength to do. (the italics are Tolkien's and not mine)

I think that we can assume, from the key passage by Gandalf in the LotR regarding Bilbo and Frodo having been chosen, and even more so from what is said in UT, that the Authority selected Frodo for this task. And I think we can also assume that the Authority knew enough (and cared enough) to select the one being who would come closest to being able to do this task. Despite all our second guessing whether Sam might have been the better choice, the answer to that must remain "no" unless we assume we can make better decisions than the Authority! To put it simply, if Frodo couldn't do it, no one could....

If you read the Silmarillion, you are impressed by the fact that it is essentially a story of failure. Yes, there are a few exceptions in the gloom, such as Beren's recapture of the Simaril, but these exceptions are few and far between. Moreover, nowhere does an act by Man or Elf make a serious dent in the power of Morgoth or Sauron, and their hold over the earth. In this context, what happened in the LotR is quite amazing. These poor remnents of the Third Age, largely men and hobbits, are nowhere portrayed as being as great and mighty as the Elves of the First and Second Age. Yet, working together, and with definite help from the Authority (the final scenes at Mount Doom and the scene where Gandalf is sent back to help them), they achieve what no one else has done in the entire Legendarium -- for a short time at least, incarnate evil in the form of Sauron is beaten back. And Frodo is a very important piece of that puzzle. Indeed I would argue that he is the most important piece.

What is amazing about Frodo is not that he failed, but that he succeeded to the extent he did. The Authority (and even Gandalf) was well aware of the limited nature of Man. My guess is that Frodo's real task was not to throw the Ring into the crack, which neither he nor anyone else could do, but to get it to the slopes of Mount Doom where something else could take over. Equally important was how he acted on that journey -- the extent to which his behavior reflected the best attributes of man. The mercy that he showed to Gollum, a mercy that was wholly illogical but utterly decent, was the fruit of that behavior.

On a personal note, I can not count the number of threads that we've had on the Downs raising the question of Frodo's "failure". It is a discussion that needs to take place with every newbie on the site, because the message of that scene lies at the heart of the LotR and Tolkien's lessons for us. Even so, I keep asking myself "why". Why do people keep raising the question of Frodo's failure, when Tolkien quite clearly says that he is not responsible for that failure, any more than he would be responsible for dying if a giant rock came and crushed him on the head?

I think the answer is this. All of us want to be in control of our destiny. We want to be able to do or believe something that will enable us to prevail against the evil we see around us. We don't like to be told "you can't do that because you are too weak or flawed." But that's just what Tolkien is telling us through the figure of Frodo! So we squirm uncomfortably and speculate on ways that Frodo "could have/should have" been a success.

Really, all of us are in Frodo's boat. All around us we see evil things, things that need changing. And if we are decent people, we will try to do something about it. But in the end we will fail unless something from outside comes in to help us: family, friends, and ultimately that which lies beyond the circles of the world. That is pretty sobering, and it's definitely what Tolkien believed.

Cami/Child/sharon

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 1:03 PM January 13, 2004: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]