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Michael Martinez · 03-29-2001, 10:51 AM

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Re: Reincarnation of the Avari

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> MM posted "...The Lord of the Rings, has Elves
of Avari descent (the Silvan Elves of Lorien) sailing over Sea. That hardly makes their choice irrevocable."

The lorien elves were def. Avari and not Nandor/daaians who did not go w/ Denethor ?<hr></blockquote>

The Avari, technically, are post-LOTR Elves. But since they were introduced before the Second Edition was published, it's convenient to identify the Avari with the East-elves of The Lord of the Rings.

The Elves of LoTR are divided into two major groups: west-elves (Eldar) and east-elves (Silvan Elves). Since the Avari of The Silmarillion are distinct from the Eldar, and the Eldar include the Nandor, there is no way to reconcile the texts without looking beyond LoTR and The Silmarillion. The War of the Jewels provides the answer in "Quendi and Eldar", which says that the Avari mingled with the Nandor.

So, the Silvan Elves were a mixture of Avari and Nandor, specifically Avari from the third clan, the Nelyar, from whom came the Teleri and therefore the Nandor. All Silvan Elves are therefore technically Nelyarin Elves.

And since the Silvan Elves were sailing over Sea in the Third Age, clearly the Avari were not being excluded from Valinor...in The Lord of the Rings. And Eonwe is said to have travelled through Middle-earth at the end of the First Age, summoning all Elves t Valinor once again. So the ban on the Avari was lifted, in some versions of the mythology.

http://www.xenite.org/Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy</a>
http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/Lord of the Rings Movie news</a>
http://www.xenite.org/xor/home.shtml1500+ Hercules/Xena Links</a>
http://www.xenite.org/books/visualiz...dle-earth.htmlVisualizing Middle-earth, a book on Tolkien</a>
http://www.xenite.org/special_events/vicky_shaffer.htmlVicky Shaffer: Monster or mother? Is Brianna in any danger?</a>
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03-29-2001, 10:51 AM	#7
Michael Martinez Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 48	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton Posts: 48</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Reincarnation of the Avari <blockquote>*Quote:<hr> MM posted "...The Lord of the Rings, has Elves of Avari descent (the Silvan Elves of Lorien) sailing over Sea. That hardly makes their choice irrevocable." The lorien elves were def. Avari and not Nandor/daaians who did not go w/ Denethor ?<hr></blockquote> The Avari, technically, are post-LOTR Elves. But since they were introduced before the Second Edition was published, it's convenient to identify the Avari with the East-elves of The Lord of the Rings. The Elves of LoTR are divided into two major groups: west-elves (Eldar) and east-elves (Silvan Elves). Since the Avari of The Silmarillion* are distinct from the Eldar, and the Eldar include the Nandor, there is no way to reconcile the texts without looking beyond LoTR and The Silmarillion. The War of the Jewels provides the answer in "Quendi and Eldar", which says that the Avari mingled with the Nandor. So, the Silvan Elves were a mixture of Avari and Nandor, specifically Avari from the third clan, the Nelyar, from whom came the Teleri and therefore the Nandor. All Silvan Elves are therefore technically Nelyarin Elves. And since the Silvan Elves were sailing over Sea in the Third Age, clearly the Avari were not being excluded from Valinor...in The Lord of the Rings. And Eonwe is said to have travelled through Middle-earth at the end of the First Age, summoning all Elves t Valinor once again. So the ban on the Avari was lifted, in some versions of the mythology. http://www.xenite.org/Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy</a> http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/Lord of the Rings Movie news</a> http://www.xenite.org/xor/home.shtml1500+ Hercules/Xena Links</a> http://www.xenite.org/books/visualiz...dle-earth.htmlVisualizing Middle-earth, a book on Tolkien</a> http://www.xenite.org/special_events/vicky_shaffer.htmlVicky Shaffer: Monster or mother? Is Brianna in any danger?</a> </p>