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Seeker of the Straight Path
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a reply
Tar Elenion said<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> " PoME has a variant where Celebrimbor is a Teler (one
of three who went with Celeborn/Teleporno into exile).
Eol as a Sinda was an excellent craftsman.
The Sindar were also noted as shipbuilders."<hr></blockquote>
Is this in Shibboleth? I read much of it yesterday looking for the final answer to the fin question in books- but missed the group teleri departure
Tar Elenion said<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> "I am curious as to why you think that removing Galadriel from her
participation in the revolt fits better? I dont agree myself, I think that in
doing so it lessens her character and motivations (and is contradicted
by RGEO "[Galadriel] was the last survivor of the princes and queens
who had led the revolting Noldor to exile in Middle-earth. After the
overthrow of Morgoth... a ban was set on her return, and she had
replied proudly that she had no wish to do so"<img src=wink.gif ALT="
"> ."<hr></blockquote>
It reduces her character in terms of the revolt admitted , but increases it in terms of purity of motivation - which explains [in part] why she alone of all the grandchildren of Finwe survive the 1st age in ME. while she was under the ban of the Valar - she was not under the doom of Mandos it would seem. see further below.
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Tar Elenion said<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> "
I am not particularly offering suggestions just pointing out various
'facts' (I am interested in seeing your solution, but it is your attempt). "<hr></blockquote>
Acknowledged and I much appreciate the dialouge as it helps me get clearer on issues in area's where I am fuzzy. there have been a few threads of this nature [ fea' of orcs and my outline ] which are along side the project as opposed to in the midst of it. but essential to my mind none the less.
<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> " I am also curious if you intend on using the abandoned version wherein
Celeborn and Galadriel found and rule the Kingdom of Lorien or the
'later' version where Amdir and Amroth are the foudners and rulers?"<hr></blockquote>
as it stands now[ and I hope will continue] , this is a group effort,and I don't have a final say or any more say than anyone else. that being said -
re: Lorien, as in other things the guiding principle is to use the final conception where it does not create new problems or chaos.To my mind this can include using parts of final conceptions [In Galdriel's case this could possibly be her and the Teleri minus Teleporno] ,still sailing seperately from Feanor. seee more below.
I think in the last years JRRT put great emphasis on Galadriel's devotion to the Valar [which Feanor did not have] and her near equal stature with him -so that a parallel but seperate departure almost would be required as she would not be willing to march w/ a host that had so recently killed her mother's people and then to go on and [hypothetically] sail in their stolen ships? [although as a counter this could be said of Finrod -excepting his special friendship w/ the son's of Fingolfin of whom it is said where like brothers to the sons of Finarfin- no such statement is made re: Galadriel]
In addition having celebrimbor leave w/ Galadriel gives further depth to his unrequitted love for her [in one version of the Ellesar] and deepens I think his motivation for making the rings.[Althogh this is an extremely Noldorin thing to do!]
As for Lorien and it's founding, I know of no hinderance to Amroth and Amdir/Malgalad, being the founders, but the movements of galadriel and celeborn are tangled and I have made no special study to what conceptions interfere w/LotR or not.The footnotes are thick on the ground as CRT says.
Durelen said<blockquote>
Quote:<hr> "I would just like to point out that Maeglin and to a lesser extent Beleg
were both excellent craftsmen."<hr></blockquote>
In one version [last?] eol is ironically a tatyarin [ie noldor who never left ME] elf.
this explains somewhat his [and Maegin's] evil and pro-dwarf temperment and his metallurgical skills.
I recall Beleg being most skilled in woodcraft - I always took this to mean: hunting/survival/herbs and plant lore and such] is there another reference?
An interesting point is that saulotus [and one or 2 others I have met or heard tell of] favor a final conception only policy whereby MT would be the guiding light and anything that got in the way would have to go. the LotR would also be revised . Too bold for my blood but consistent and idealistic ,in a way.
My personal goal w/ all of this [which may or may not line up w/ a group endeavor] is too have the richest possible narrative versions of the tales laid out in a way similar to
The Silmarillion but w/ all of theUnfinished/History material included wherever feasible in the text[QS] ,appendices or in a new Tales of Numenor and Of the Rings of power and the 2nd and 3rd Ages.
Another goal is [w/ the group process] is to see how it goes as acommunity endeavor in and of itself, I have already learned much [although some could well argue otherwise <img src=smile.gif ALT="
"> ] about group dynamics and a little more about writing and my typing is up 100% [from near nothing<img src=smile.gif ALT="
"> ] so the group project and my goals are dovetailing nicely for me at this point, but I would stay w/ the group effort as long as it is going and my biz/family life allow, as it motivates me and teaches me in ways a solo effort are not likely to do as quickly or easily.
Tar Elenion have you/ read a copy of the Osanwe-Kenta?
It is an amazing section CRT left out of XI.
lindil
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