The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - *Feanor,Turin and the Second Prophecy of Mandos*

jallanite · 06-05-2001, 06:27 PM

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
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Re: Feanor,Turin and the Second Prophecy of Mandos

Why did Christopher Tolkien drop the Second Prophecy of Mandos?

At least two passage in Morgoth's Ring (HoME 10) indicate reasons, though they might not be the only ones.

The first is in PART THREE, THE LATER QUENTA SILMARILLION II THE SECOND PHASE, "The Valaquenta", near the end, where a new "Valaquenta" colophon ends with the words:<blockquote>Quote:<hr> and if any change shall come and the Marring be amended, Manwë and Varda may know; but they have not revealed it, and it is not declared in the dooms of Mandos.<hr></blockquote>

This is very clear, and Christopher Tolkien cleverly removed the new Valaquenta colophon to replace the second prophesy of Mandos in Quenta Silmarillion, only changing the words " The Valaquenta" to "The SILMARILLION".

The second passage is in PART FOUR, ATHRABETH FINROD AH ANDRETH, in Note 7:<blockquote>Quote:<hr> It is noteworthy that the Elves had no myths or legends dealing with the end of the world. The myth that appears at the end of the Silmarillion is of Númenórean origin;^19 it is clearly made by Men, though Men acquainted with Elvish tradition.

19***'The myth that appears at the end of the Silmarillion': in so far as the reference is to any actual written text, this is the conclusion of QS (V.333, §§31-2), the Prophecy of Mandos.<hr></blockquote>

So the so-called "Second Prophecy of Mandos" then is no longer considered an authentic Elvish text.

Yet the actual work known as The Silmarillion still ends with it. And perhaps should still continue to end with it, even if it is not authentically Elvish.

Would it be too great a change to simply add a few words before the beginning of the prophesy marking it as a note? For example:<blockquote>Quote:<hr> It was said after in Númenor:

*****Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the ....<hr></blockquote>

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000212>jallanit e</A> at: 6/6/01 4:03:03 pm

06-05-2001, 06:27 PM	#3
jallanite Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 479	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones Posts: 14</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> Re: Feanor,Turin and the Second Prophecy of Mandos Why did Christopher Tolkien drop the Second Prophecy of Mandos? At least two passage in Morgoth's Ring (HoME 10) indicate reasons, though they might not be the only ones. The first is in PART THREE, THE LATER QUENTA SILMARILLION II THE SECOND PHASE, "The Valaquenta", near the end, where a new "Valaquenta" colophon ends with the words:<blockquote>*Quote:<hr> and if any change shall come and the Marring be amended, Manwë and Varda may know; but they have not revealed it, and it is not declared in the dooms of Mandos.<hr></blockquote> This is very clear, and Christopher Tolkien cleverly removed the new Valaquenta colophon to replace the second prophesy of Mandos in Quenta Silmarillion, only changing the words " The Valaquenta" to "The SILMARILLION". The second passage is in PART FOUR, ATHRABETH FINROD AH ANDRETH, in Note 7:<blockquote>Quote:<hr> It is noteworthy that the Elves had no myths or legends dealing with the end of the world. The myth that appears at the end of the Silmarillion* is of Númenórean origin;^19 it is clearly made by Men, though Men acquainted with Elvish tradition. 19**'The myth that appears at the end of the Silmarillion': in so far as the reference is to any actual written text, this is the conclusion of QS (V.333, §§31-2), the Prophecy of Mandos.<hr></blockquote> So the so-called "Second Prophecy of Mandos" then is no longer considered an authentic Elvish text. Yet the actual work known as The Silmarillion* still ends with it. And perhaps should still continue to end with it, even if it is not authentically Elvish. Would it be too great a change to simply add a few words before the beginning of the prophesy marking it as a note? For example:<blockquote>*Quote:<hr> It was said after in Númenor: ***Thus spake Mandos in prophecy, when the ....<hr></blockquote> </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000212>jallanit e</A> at: 6/6/01 4:03:03 pm*