[HerenIstarion]

well, I'll try to back myself up:

L 153, to Peter Hastings

...having mentioned Free Will, I might say that in my myth I have used 'subcreation' in a special way (not the same as 'subcreation' as a term in criticism of art, though I tried to show allegorically how that might come to be taken up into Creation in some plane in my 'purgatorial' story Leaf by Niggle (Dublin Review 1945)) to make visible and physical the effects of Sin or misused Free Will by men. Free Will is derivative, and is.'. only operative within provided circumstances; but in order that it may exist, <font color="FF0013">it is necessary that the Author should guarantee it, whatever betides : sc. when it is 'against His Will', as we say, at any rate as it appears on a finite view. He does not stop or make 'unreal' sinful acts and their consequences. So in this myth, it is 'feigned' (legitimately whether that is a feature of the real world or not) that He gave special 'sub-creative' powers to certain of His highest created beings: that is a guarantee that what they devised and made should be given the reality of Creation. Of course within limits, and of course subject to certain commands or prohibitions. But if they 'fell', as the Diabolus Morgoth did, and started making things 'for himself, to be their Lord', these would then 'be', even if Morgoth broke the supreme ban against making other 'rational' creatures like Elves or Men. They would at least 'be' real physical realities in the physical world, however evil they might prove, even 'mocking' the Children of God. They would be Morgoth's greatest Sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would be creatures begotten of Sin, and naturally bad. (I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making – necessary to their actual existence – even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.) But whether they could have 'souls' or 'spirits' seems a different question; and since in my myth at any rate I do not conceive of the <font color="FF0013">making of souls or spirits, things of an equal order if not an equal power to the Valar, as a possible 'delegation', I have represented at least the Orcs as pre-existing real beings on whom the Dark Lord has exerted the fullness of his power in remodelling and corrupting them, not making them. That God would 'tolerate' that, seems no worse theology than the toleration of the calculated dehumanizing of Men by tyrants that goes on today. There might be other 'makings' all the same which were more like puppets filled (only at a distance) with their maker's mind and will, or ant-like operating under direction of a queen-centre.

highlighted sentencs stand for:

a) Right to use free will is always there (I mean it in general, but we may narrow to Tolkien's myth only as well)

b) Since unable to create souls (fear), Morgoth would have been unable to modify their main charasteristics.

So, having in mind that:

325 From a letter to Roger Lancelyn Green

The Valar had neither the power nor the right to confer 'immortality' upon them

The contrary is assumed to be impossible also, so (if) orcs were twisted elves, they were immortal (within the bounds of the world)

But this if is not essential, since JRRT, not being content with elven theory, gave us "pre-existing real beings" instead


and to summarizeit all, I would like to quote note from HoME X, entitled Orks. I'm giving it in full, for it's not so long, but is most interesting, since who's the best source than the author?

Orcs.

Their nature and origin require more thought. They are not easy
to work into the theory and system.
(1). As the case of Aule and the Dwarves shows, only Eru could make creatures with independent wills, and with reasoning powers. But Orcs seem to hav both: they can try to cheat Morgoth/Sauron, rebel against him, or criticize him.

(2). ?Therefore they must be corruptions of something pre-existing.
(3). But Men had not yet appeared, when the Orcs already existed. Aule constructed the Dwarves out of his memory of the Music; but Eru would not sanction the work of Melkor so as to allow the independence of the Orcs.(Not unless Orcs were ultimately remediable, or could be amended and 'saved'?)
It also seems clear (see 'Finrod and Andreth') that though Melkor could utterly corrupt and ruin individuals,it is not possible to contemplate his absolute perversion of a whole people,or group of peoples,and his making that state heritable[Added later: This latter must (if a fact) be an act of Eru.]
In that case Elves, as a source, are very unlikely. And are Orcs 'immortal', in the Elvish sense? Or trolls?It seems clearly implied in The Lord of the Rings that trolls existed in their own right, but were 'tinkered' with by Melkor

(4).What of talking beasts and birds with reasoning and speech? These have been rather lightly adopted from less 'serious' mythologies, but play a part which cannot now be excised.They are certainly 'exceptions' and not much used, but
sufficiently to show they are a recognized feature of the world.
All other creatures accept them as natural if not common.
But true 'rational'creatures, 'speaking peoples',are all of human/'humanoid' form. Only the Valar and Maiar are intelligences that can assume forms of Arda at will. Huan and Sorontar could be Maiar-emissaries of Manwe. But unfortunately in The Lord of the Rings Gwaehir and Landroval are said to be descendants of Sorontar.
In any case is it likely or possible that even the least of the Maiar would become Orcs? Yes: both outside Arda and in it, before the fall of Utumno. Melkor had corrupted many spirits - some great, as Sauron, or less so, as Balrogs. The least could have been primitive (and much more powerful and perilous) Orcs; but by practising when embodied procreation they would (cf.Melian) become more and more earthbound, unable to return to spirit-state (even demon-form),until released by death
(killing),and they would dwindle in force. When released they would, of course, like Sauron, be 'damned': i.e. reduced to impotence, infinitely recessive: still hating but unable more and more to make it effective physically (or would not a very
dwindled dead Orc-state be a poltergeist?).
But again - would Eru provide fear for such creatures? For the Eagles etc. perhaps. But not for Orcs
It does however seem best to view Melkor's corrupting power as always starting, at least, in the moral or theological level. Any creature that took him for Lord (and especially those who
blasphemously called him Father or Creator) became soon corrupted in all parts of its being, the fea dragging down the
hroa in its descent into Morgothism: hate and destruction. <font color="FF0013">As for Elves being 'immortal': they in fact only had enormously long lives, and were themselves physically 'wearing out', and suffering a slow progressive weakening of their bodies.
In summary: I think it must be assumed that 'talking' is not necessarily the sign of the possession of a 'rational soul' or fea.
<font color="FF0013">The Orcs were beasts of humanized shape (to mock Men and Elves) deliberately perverted converted into a more close resemblance to Men. Their 'talking' was really reeling off 'records' set in them by Melkor.Even their rebellious critical words - he knew about them. Melkor taught them speech and as they bred they inherited this; and they had just as much
independence as have, say, dogs or horses of their human masters. This talking was largely echoic (cf. parrots). In The
Lord of the Rings Sauron is said to have devised a language for them

The same sort of thing may be said of Huan and the Eagles:
they were taught language by the Valar, and raised to a higher
level - but they still had no fear.
But Finrod probably went too far in his assertion that Melkor could not wholly corrupt any work of Eru, or that Eru would
(necessarily) interfere to abrogate the corruption, or to end the being of His own creatures because they had been corrupted
and fallen into evil

<font color="FF0013">It remains therefore terribly possible there was an Elvish strain in the Orcs These may then even have been mated with beasts (sterile!) - and later Men. Their life-span would be diminished.And dying they would go to Mandos and be held in prison till the End.

[ CT - The text as written ends here, but my father subsequently added the
following passage. The words with which it opens are a reference to
text Vl, Melkor Morgoth (p. 390). ]

See 'Melkor'. It will there be seen that the wills of Orcs and Balrogs etc. are part of Melkor's power 'dispersed'. Their spirit is one of hate. But hate is non-cooperative (except under direct fear). Hence the rebellions, mutinies, etc. when Morgoth seems far off. <font color="FF0013">Orcs are beasts and Balrogs corrupted Maiar. Also (n.b.) Morgoth not Sauron is the source of Orc-wills. Sauron is just another (if greater) agent. Orcs can rebel against him without losing their own irremediable allegiance to evil (Morgoth). Aule wanted love. But of course had no thought of dispersing his power. Only Eru can give love and independence. If a finite sub-creator tries to do this he really wants absolute loving obedience, but it turns into robotic servitude and becomes evil.

Hence 12 Orkish Statemenst above, complied with regards of already published works

*H-Iwipes his brow

finished