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Olorin_TLA · 06-03-2003, 02:36 PM

Thanks! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I think what they may have meant is during the War of the Ring, when it erupted quite a lot, especially at the end of each movie. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

While I agree that Orodruin would have caused (or been the major source of (nasty goings on in Orc pits could have been spewing some of this stuff out too) ) the clouds that caused the Dawnless Day, I also think that...well, just the way they act, spreading so far and over hsi enemies must mean that Sauron controlled or manipulated the Cloud. After all, Melkor did a similar thing with the Evil Breath, and the Balrogs can control shadow, which for a mair like Sauron I'd imagine may be easier than controlling cloud (but then again - I'm not a mair. Yet. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ). Also, note the timing - perfectly coinciding with the assaults on Gondor.
But the passage I think that most supports this is either at the end of "The Siege of Gondor" or the beginning of "The Battle of Pellenor Fileds", where it says that the darkness was breaking too soon, before the date his [the Witch-King's] master had set for it, which indicates that Sauron was, to an extent, in control. Not enough of an extent to avoid Aragorn's fresh wind, but then again, maybe that wasn't the cause - the whole dark and light theme is very...thematic...and ancient, and the fact that the Rohirrim charge to the rescue, and Aragorn and the Dead Men are coming, in other words, the tables are turning on Sauron, could be manifested in a very literal triumph of lgith over darkness.

So just to kind of tack onto the end of both this and my previous post in this thread, I think that the land and weather seem as much affected by the presence of mythical (orks, nazgul, etc) evil and mythical (heroic) good forces as they do of "real" factors. The Third Age is, after all, the end of the "Faerie" days of Middle-earth - the last Mythical evil (Tolkien's own words) has been defeated, the Elves have crossed, Valinor and all the valar and maiar, good and bad, are unreachable, and so these Mythic effects of the pwoerful forces of pure good and evil (almost symbolism) are in there last days too - but still there.

[ June 03, 2003: Message edited by: Olorin_TLA ]

06-03-2003, 02:36 PM	#21
Olorin_TLA Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gardens of Lórien, Valinor. Posts: 420	Thanks! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I think what they may have meant is during the War of the Ring, when it erupted quite a lot, especially at the end of each movie. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] While I agree that Orodruin would have caused (or been the major source of (nasty goings on in Orc pits could have been spewing some of this stuff out too) ) the clouds that caused the Dawnless Day, I also think that...well, just the way they act, spreading so far and over hsi enemies must mean that Sauron controlled or manipulated the Cloud. After all, Melkor did a similar thing with the Evil Breath, and the Balrogs can control shadow, which for a mair like Sauron I'd imagine may be easier than controlling cloud (but then again - I'm not a mair. Yet. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ). Also, note the timing - perfectly coinciding with the assaults on Gondor. But the passage I think that most supports this is either at the end of "The Siege of Gondor" or the beginning of "The Battle of Pellenor Fileds", where it says that the darkness was breaking too soon, before the date his [the Witch-King's] master had set for it, which indicates that Sauron was, to an extent, in control. Not enough of an extent to avoid Aragorn's fresh wind, but then again, maybe that wasn't the cause - the whole dark and light theme is very...thematic...and ancient, and the fact that the Rohirrim charge to the rescue, and Aragorn and the Dead Men are coming, in other words, the tables are turning on Sauron, could be manifested in a very literal triumph of lgith over darkness. So just to kind of tack onto the end of both this and my previous post in this thread, I think that the land and weather seem as much affected by the presence of mythical (orks, nazgul, etc) evil and mythical (heroic) good forces as they do of "real" factors. The Third Age is, after all, the end of the "Faerie" days of Middle-earth - the last Mythical evil (Tolkien's own words) has been defeated, the Elves have crossed, Valinor and all the valar and maiar, good and bad, are unreachable, and so these Mythic effects of the pwoerful forces of pure good and evil (almost symbolism) are in there last days too - but still there. [ June 03, 2003: Message edited by: Olorin_TLA ] __________________ "For I am Olórin! And Olórin means me!" ELENDIL! - Join "Forth Tolkiengas!"