The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - What's With this Always Going Underground

***Sharkû*** · 02-12-2002, 09:51 PM

It's sexual symbolism, I tell you!!

(That was ironic, btw) [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
...

Might as well repair a senseless post.

“In The Hobbit Bilbo and the Dwarves go underground and out the other side of some geological formation not less than three times: Goblin-Town, the Thranduil's Caverns, and Mt. Erebor.”

First of all, they are dwarves, it is that simple when it comes to Erebor. Dwarves, in turn, care little about symbolism, they are made that way by their creator; to love gems, the bones of the earth, etc.
Goblins/orcs are the opposite of all things light and fair, so they go underground where it is eternally dark, and where they can hide and breed -- 'Death to light, to law, to love / Cursed by moon and stars above....'. Again, a simple mythological explanation. The company did not visit Goblin-Town voluntarily.
Thranduil went underground for reasons of safety as well, after the fashion of the Elf Lords of the First Age. One probably useless thought of mine here is that you can see stars much better from the bottom of a dark pit, well, or cave; even in daylight, mayhap.

“The Lord of the Rings you have the Mines of Moria, Aragorn's taking the Paths of the Dead, and Tunnel portion of the Pass of Cirith Ungol (Shelob's Lair)”

Again, a dwarf mansion, and not just any. Again, not the route of choice.
As for the Paths of the Dead, I simply cannot imagine a Grove of the Dead where a Prince of Rohan could lose his life to ghosts. And where the mountains of Middle-Earth cannot be passed, one has to go under them. One might want to consider that these mountains are not solely geologically formed as ours, but the works of the Gods and their Enemy, and their heights and shapes are sometimes of a whole different dimension.

Hobbits use underground, ‘earth-‘ mansions when possible, maybe due to size, maybe genes, probably safety again.

The Earth symbolism seems irrelevant to me. At any rate, it would stand as peer with fire symbolism (Flame Imperishable), air (Manwë, Eagles), and water (the most ‘noble’ element). And if you consider underground travels overly used in the books, so would be air, water, and fire symbolism (and sometimes travels, e.g. the eagles, sea voyages, etc.).

Which leads me to my last point. The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings are fundamentally books about journeys. We have dozens of forests. There are many mountains to cross. I do not think the element of going subterranean was overdone in that regard. And in the major part of the Prof’s mythology, this plays a considerably smaller part anyway.

[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Sharku ]

02-12-2002, 09:51 PM	#10
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	It's sexual symbolism, I tell you!! (That was ironic, btw) [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ... Might as well repair a senseless post. “In The Hobbit Bilbo and the Dwarves go underground and out the other side of some geological formation not less than three times: Goblin-Town, the Thranduil's Caverns, and Mt. Erebor.” First of all, they are dwarves, it is that simple when it comes to Erebor. Dwarves, in turn, care little about symbolism, they are made that way by their creator; to love gems, the bones of the earth, etc. Goblins/orcs are the opposite of all things light and fair, so they go underground where it is eternally dark, and where they can hide and breed -- 'Death to light, to law, to love / Cursed by moon and stars above....'. Again, a simple mythological explanation. The company did not visit Goblin-Town voluntarily. Thranduil went underground for reasons of safety as well, after the fashion of the Elf Lords of the First Age. One probably useless thought of mine here is that you can see stars much better from the bottom of a dark pit, well, or cave; even in daylight, mayhap. “The Lord of the Rings you have the Mines of Moria, Aragorn's taking the Paths of the Dead, and Tunnel portion of the Pass of Cirith Ungol (Shelob's Lair)” Again, a dwarf mansion, and not just any. Again, not the route of choice. As for the Paths of the Dead, I simply cannot imagine a Grove of the Dead where a Prince of Rohan could lose his life to ghosts. And where the mountains of Middle-Earth cannot be passed, one has to go under them. One might want to consider that these mountains are not solely geologically formed as ours, but the works of the Gods and their Enemy, and their heights and shapes are sometimes of a whole different dimension. Hobbits use underground, ‘earth-‘ mansions when possible, maybe due to size, maybe genes, probably safety again. The Earth symbolism seems irrelevant to me. At any rate, it would stand as peer with fire symbolism (Flame Imperishable), air (Manwë, Eagles), and water (the most ‘noble’ element). And if you consider underground travels overly used in the books, so would be air, water, and fire symbolism (and sometimes travels, e.g. the eagles, sea voyages, etc.). Which leads me to my last point. The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings are fundamentally books about journeys. We have dozens of forests. There are many mountains to cross. I do not think the element of going subterranean was overdone in that regard. And in the major part of the Prof’s mythology, this plays a considerably smaller part anyway. [ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Sharku ]