BAD PJ
 

I finally got the extended DVD today, so my nitpicking officially began.<P>First, and all for tonight:<P>Andúril isn't even <I>mentioned</I>. Not only that, but the sword Aragorn carries throughout the second half of the movie doesn't even have the same hilt as Narsil did in Rivendell. This annoys me greatly.<P>Second....<P>I haven't really found anything, although I did love the extended (by about 2 seconds) view of the Balrog running. (PS: They do have wings! lol lol lol....don't even think about starting on that).<P>And...why doesn't Sting become luminescient when the Fellowship is surrounded by orcs?<P>Heh heh....<P>Cya'll l8er, folks.

Ya know, I was wondering about the Sting thing when I watched the movie the first time. That had been bothering me so much. I just came up with two answers to my questions....<P>1. You just can't see it glowind because of the far away distance, and in up close shots it is in its case. <P>2. I just thought maybe those were just some cave creature and not actually an Orc.<P>These are most likely not true. It's probably just a movie blooper. But hey, it's a thing to think about.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Andúril isn't even mentioned. Not only that, but the sword Aragorn carries throughout the second half of the movie doesn't even have the same hilt as Narsil did in Rivendell. This annoys me greatly.<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The first scene on the second disk has Elrond telling Aragorn that the elves have the power to reforge Narsil but only he has the power to use it. But Aragorn said that he never wanted that power. Hence Narsil isn't reforged and Aragorn carries a generic sword for the rest of the movie.

I believe that Narsil will make an appearance in the Two Towers. Arwyn will bring the reforged sword to Aragorn when she comes to Rohan. <P>I know, I know: heresy. But I suppose PJ saw this as a better way to spotlight the importance of the symbolism of the sword, and perhaps felt that having the heirloom presented to Aragorn in front of a more "Mannish" audience would emphasize better the moment he receives the sword that would make him King. <P>P.J. seems to have thought these things out pretty thoroughly. I don't think he just "forgot" about the Sword. And he's <I>not</I> a Bad P.J. He's a very, very good P.J.<p>[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

Oh my gosh, are you serious?? No Anduril? But what about that scene in Meduseld?? That was one of my favorite scenes...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 'Well,' said Gimli, 'if it has Anduril to keep it company, my axe may stay here too, without shame.' <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Aragorn having Anduril was, I think, very important in the soldiers' accepting him as their commander.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> A shout went up from wall and tower: 'Anduril! Anduril goes to war. The Blade that was Broken shines again!' <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I wonder why Peter Jackson made that decision. It would be an interesting question to ask him.<P>~*~Orual~*~<P>EDIT: Birdland, you warm my heart. I hope that happens. That would, I suppose, both bring Anduril back and appease the Arwen fans. I certainly hope that she brings it before Meduseld, though!!<P>EDIT #2: I left this up for over a month with Gimli speaking of his "aze." I bow my head in shame. I have amended my mistake.<P>[ November 16, 2002: Message edited by: Orual ]<p>[ December 20, 2002: Message edited by: Orual ]

It's just....all so wrong....so very wrong....<P>Let's make a new movie, completely like the book. We could get Glorfindel back!<P>Yay!<P>On a completely different note, I recently found out that there is a 1978 LotR movie....I'm pretty sure it's a cartoon, but I would love to hear how it is.<P>Thanks in advance.

If you would ever see the 1978 cartoon (done in two different parts), you'd appreciate PJ more! I also have my complaints about PJ, among the most serious being the depiction of Frodo as a 'too spineless victim' almost from the first instant he walks onto the screen. But having said that, we could have done a lot worse than PJ's version.<P>Someone told me in the Books forum to think of the movies as fanfiction--a stupendous, great, and classy fanfiction, which reflect PJ's views of Tolkien rather than pure Tolkien itself.<P>I find this mindset works for me quite well.<P>sharon

I got the dvd yesterday - and guess what happens?!? My d*mned machine broke down! I got to see to the part when Boromir dies and then the dvd-player is dead... <BR>Anyways, on the sword thing in Moria. In the scene were they are surrounded by Orcs, you have a short glimpse of Frodo closely, and you can actually see the end of a blue-shining thing held below the picture. I persume it's Sting. I think you can't see the sword glow from far, and that's why we think it's not.

Don't fret Orual - as I said, Anduril will be presented to Aragorn in the Two Towers by Arwyn.<P>I guess since P.J. chose to portray Aragorn as a character filled with doubts about his suitability to be King, it would make more sense to have him receive the sword later, after he has developed more credibility amongst the Men of Middle Earth.<P>It may not be the same as the book, but for the film it will probably work.<p>[ November 17, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

Is it just me, or are we tending to treat PJ like a dog? oh well *joins the crowd and tosses him a bone* Anyway, I didn't even catch that little blooper in Moria, and overall I thought the extended version was great. I especially liked the part where Gimli talked about Galadriel's gift My only complaint is that Sam didn't get his seed box, only a piece of rope. I know it wouldn't have been practically because there won't be a Scouring of the Shire, but it still would have been nice.

Yea whats up with that??!!!!! Sam HAS to get the seed box, the Scouring of the Shire..well, its important, I'm gonna be mad if in the end they leave it out!!!! <P>And I think its cool the Arwen gives Aragorn Anduril in the next movie, its works out great!!!!!

Although it's nice to know that PJ tried to explain away the "Blade of Westernesse" by Galadriel giving it to Merry and Pip.<P>What ever happened to Legolas and Gimli's budding friendship? Does this mean there's no "who can kill more orcs" at Helm's Deep?

Hopefully we'll see more of Legolas and Gimli's friendship in TT...because it really only begins after Lorien, doesn't it? I think one of the first real indications is Legolas' words when Gimli and Eomer seem to be getting set up for a fight:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 'He stands not alone,' said Legolas, bending his bow and fitting an arrow with hands that moved quicker than sight. 'You would die before your stroke fell.' <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>::stares at quote:: Dude. That's so cool. Oh! Anyway! Well, if they don't keep the Orc-killing contest, I'll be very put out, but I think we should give PJ the benefit of the doubt and hope and pray that he includes it.<P>~*~Orual~*~

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> P.J. seems to have thought these things out pretty thoroughly. I don't think he just "forgot" about the Sword. And he's not a Bad P.J. He's a very, very good P.J. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Someone told me in the Books forum to think of the movies as fanfiction--a stupendous, great, and classy fanfiction, which reflect PJ's views of Tolkien rather than pure Tolkien itself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Birdland, Sharon, I agree with you both very much. This movie was never supposed to be verbatum Tolkien. I never heard PJ state that everything in the movie was exactly like the book and that you should never have to read the book again! Anyway, I suggest paying attention to the special features to get the idea of just how much these people love the book and are making a movie in honor of it. Any movie script, no matter how slavishly faithful, would end up being fanfiction.<P>I think that it is impossible to do what Manwe Sulimo is suggesting:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Let's make a new movie, completely like the book. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It wouldn't be a movie, then. It would be a pictoral documentary of the book. If, that is, you could even get a finished project.<P>I must admit, though, that I don't really give two shucks about Anduril—I mean, not enough to start flaming PJ about it. Perhaps I'm just not that into swords, but it seems to me that Aragorn is more important than the sword he carries. It's not "The One Sword" after all.<P>Even so, I don't see much of a reason to alter that aspect of the book, myself. The idea about Arwen is good, but I suppose it wouldn't have occured to me. I'd think, "Why incur the invectiveness of fans over such a small thing? It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much censur and wrath over so small a thing...such a little thing..."

Well, i have seen a spoiler of possibly the funniest moment in TTT. Aragorn and Gimli are stood in the battle at Helm's Deep and there is a large gap between the two walls and Gimli asks Aragorn to toss him, then Aragorn says are you sure and Gimli says, "Yes Aragorn, toss me!"

LOL!!!!!!!!!

I know, I can not wait for that bit, its possibly going to be the best thing in the history of all time!

**********SPOLIER****************<P>What's even better is that when Aragorn looks at Gimli with shock, Gimli replies "Don't tell the elf"<P>Man it's gonna be great!

Gimli is so cool, i love him so much.

Ah, but it would be a <I>theatrically done</I> pictoral documentary of the books.<P>Let's get cracking, shall we? Who wants to play Frodo?

I'll play Sam! ^_^<P>~*~Orual~*~

thats great!!!! lol I'm Arwen heeheeee

I got dibs on Gandalf *digs out old costume and beard*

Heh....does this mean I'm the director?<P>*Shouts*<P>Okay, Frodo, go to the right and....Frodo? Frooooooodo! Where are you?<P>*Whispers to Oraul* "Where's Frodo?"

::shrugs:: Not to the right, apparently.

Ahem! Let's get back to the original topic without the roleplaying, please!

Speaking of swords.....<P>Has anyone besides me noticed that, even though Gandalf's sword Glamdring is supposed to be made of the smae stuff as Sing, it dosen't glow when orcs are around?

Well, er, maybe ... maybe, maybe he'll get it later in the movie, because Glamdring has been stored in Rivendell together with Narsil, because it was broken, and was waiting to be reforged!! Or again, maybe it <B>was</B> just a blooper...

Yeah, I mean, it's fine to have all this stuff missing (for the sake of the dumber audience and time constraints), but the stuff that you <I>do</I> have in, make it right! Petition time!<P>lol

Frodo says:<P>Has anyone besides me noticed that, even though Gandalf's sword Glamdring is supposed to be made of the smae stuff as Sing, it dosen't glow when orcs are around?<BR>--------<P>Yes, Glamdring should also glow when orcs are around.<P>And the Sword of Elendil was reforged in Rivendell by the Elven Smiths and Aragorn took it with him. Just another excuse to get Arwen into TTT where she doesn't belong.

well no sword in TTT, so I guessw we will see her with the Dunedain of the North and the sword. <P>I just hope PJ staarts to feel the error of his ways when and if he ever tries to read LotR again.<P>not having the swords be consistent is silly on his part. I noticed it at Osgiliath too when Frodo attacks Sam. We know sting can detect orcs on the other side of the river.<P>Now what could have given PJ a fwe brownie points would to have had all of the Helms deep elves pull out there <I>glowing blue swords </I>together.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I just hope PJ staarts to feel the error of his ways when and if he ever tries to read LotR again.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>WHAT F***IN' ERROR!!!!!!! <P>Oh, I'm sorry PJ can't be 'Mr. Perfect Guy' for you. <P>Sorry, guess I got cared away there, but still, Tolkien wrote the books, PJ directed the movies.

TealDude, I'm sorry and I know I'm not all that great at calmly expressing my opinions, but you need to calm yourself. Your posts tend to be just a tad violent.<p>[ December 21, 2002: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

It made me mad that Galadriel gave Sam rope. Rope! what kind of a gift is rope!?! It isn't even special. Oh well...

Yeah...how is Sam gonna use the rope in RotK? It's not like he used it for anything significant in TTT....

Remember how some of the details people were freaking out on about FotR is getting cleared up in this movie? Maybe we will get a reasonable explanation on severe questions in RotK? Maybe all of us should relax and give the poor guy a chance to do it his way? I think PJ is good at it - could you imagine George Lucas doing that movie? Sauron turning out to be Frodos father? PJ is definately not the worst fantasy director!<P>And Sam used his rope to tie Gollum, and probably soem details, we wont notice 'til the 5th time we see the movie.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What's even better is that when Aragorn looks at Gimli with shock, Gimli replies "Don't tell the elf"<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That bit cracked me up. Just the way he says it. It's so damn funny

Up until the time he died, even J.R.R. Tolkien himself was not sure how to 'unify' (for lack of a better word) the 'continuity' (someone please invent some better words) of the Lord of the Rings. So PJ didn't make the movie exactly like the way the books came out. Big deal! Tolkien's final LotR was very different from the way he originally envisioned it, too. I mean, there wasn't even supposed to be a Strider originally, among other things (like there was no Legolas nor Gimli at Balin's tomb).<P>The fact that Anduril was nowhere to be seen in FotR and TTT, as well as having Elves in Helm's Deep, héck! even the fact that there was no Dunharrow, and a lot of other stuff I am so tempted to mention but I am not, hrrrmmmm, all of these are considerably minor to the stuff I have been reading in Lost Tales, HoME, and Unfinished tales. I mean, whoah! where did all THAT come from.<P>I mean, give PJ a break! He has to fit all of this in to a movie barely three hours long. I am actually surprised that he got Appendix A and some of the Lay of Leithian into the film.<P>Gaaahhhh, gaaahhhh, *heeeeek*, haaaaah... sorry, got carried away there. Sorry, didn't mean to be rude or anything. Can't we get any of the Japanese to make a faithful anime series rendition of the LotR, so we can have <I>everything</I>. *Sob-sob* Sorry, PJ; didn't mean to doubt you...

Ah, but Appendix A <I>wasn't</I> in the story of <I>The Lord of the Rings</I>. And he still called it the "Lay of Lúthien".

We need a thread about all the things Peter jackson has done that we love! There are many. (for me) All the long years from 72 to 02, Tolkien talk was "lean pickings". I love the interest PJ's movies have stirred up. The visual images in these movies have "fleshed out" the quick going over I often gave them, as I hurriedly gobbled words while reading (no matter how many times I read LoTR, I rush to get to certain parts) . The Shire, the birthday party, Gandalf's fireworks, Aragorn's look, Sam's attitude concerning Frodo, the beautiful sight of Eowyn striding out of the Golden Hall with the breeze billowing her dress, Gandalf and the Balrog falling and fighting....I could go on and on. I love the visual images of these movies. (If they had just made the winged Nazgul a LITTLE scarrier! )