Erm, what's with the princess mistake?
 

Upon searching the net for LotR news and such, I've come across many,many articles. They have only one thing in common: they all call Arwen a princess. What the heck is with that? Elrond is LORD of Imladris. Not King, not Prince, Lord, and yet people insist on calling his daughter a princess. Even more annoying is when fanfic writers (who are SUPPOSED to know better) call her royalty. Can someone explain to me why people blindly charge on and call Arwen Your Highness?<p>[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: Losthuniel ]

No idea, they also seem to FORGET about Legolas' princely status... GRRRRRRRRR!!!

Heh-those are dissappontingly true ::shrugs::

Well, in the Bible God is described as Lord, and his son Jesus has been called Prince of Peace so... O.K. not sure where that thought was headed but ya. I can see how Lords could be interpreted as a king so therefore Arwen would be a princess. Maybe she just acts like a princess?

It is sad, isn't it? Like 90% of articles say that Bilbo is Frodo's uncle! Wrong! He is Frodo's cousin!<BR>Maybe they call her royalty because she is the most beautiful elf maiden since Luthien? One could only guess. <P>~M

I agree that is is quite frustrating. >=( But, I suppose that the unknowing public (I don't know about the LOTR fans who write fanfic) just falls into that phase of thinking that every young, important, royal-like woman in stories are movies are princesses. <P>I don't think, when the public calls any vital female figures princesses, that they always mean it literally. The word 'princess', I believe, has become more of a <I>type</I> of person or character over the years. Leader, beautiful, graceful, important, strong. All are supposed characteristics of a 'princess'.<P>That's just how I see it.

An excellent point, DarkRose. <P>Actually, LePetitChoux, in my experience, the fic writers do remeber Legolas's Princeship, but usually only so their character can marry him and become Princess.

Well, I've seen dozens of Disney pages (ok, I am 16 years old and still like animated heroines. so?) that calls the female heroine for 'princess'. I think (as have been said before) that people like to refer to main female characters as princesses. Or something like that. I'm no authority.

Well, Galadriel is a queen, so Arwen's mother could have been considered a princess, therefore making Arwen one? Maybe?

I don't recall Galadriel ever being called a queen. She was the "Lady of the Golden Wood".

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Well, Galadriel is a queen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I don't recall Galadriel ever being called a queen <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I am sorry but is this not <B>trajic irony?</B>

I thought she was a queen... but then again, I'm new to Tolkien, so I get a bit confused at times.

Aw, Arwen Imladris, I meant "called by Tolkien"! And...you know that don't you?

I think this confusion may have arisen from the fact that Liv Tyler and Cater Blanchett always refer to themselves as princess and queen. Damn actresses always *************** The rest of this post has been censored as it is really offensive to actresses.

One might like an actual quote by either Liv Tyler or Cate Blanchett wherein they refer to themselves as such.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>One might like an actual quote by either Liv Tyler or Cate Blanchett wherein they refer to themselves as such.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know I would. Also, I would like to know the context in which it was said: why did they say it?<BR>Arwen

okay i'm new to this forum so sorry if i make a fool of myself.<BR>i think Cate Blanchett refers to herself as a Queen in one of her interviews for the TV specials on the DVD. Something like:<BR> 'She is the Queen of the Elves and the elves are passing over' <BR>Does that help?

Welcome, Feather, and you didn't make a fool of yourself! You don't have to worry about that here! We're all crazy one way or another, so if anything, you might just be thought to be a little insane I'm really new to Tolkien, so I was worried about soinding stupid or ignorant, but most of my questions have been taken very nicely. There are many kind and helpful people here! Have fun being dead!! <BR>Arwen

Actually, if you read the Silm. you'll find that:<P><I>Elrond's</I> father <I>Eärendil</I> is the son of <I>Idril</I> who is daughter of <I>Turgon</I>, (the <B>King</B> of Gondolin), who is the son of <I>Fingolfin</I>, the son of <B>High King </B> <I>Finwë</I>.<P><I>Elrond's</I> mother is <I>Elwing</I>, daughter of <I>Dior</I>, the son of <I>Lúthien</I>, who is the daughter of <B>King</B> <I>Thingol</I> and <B>Queen</B> <I>Melian</I> of Doriath.<P>Besides that, <I>Galadriel's</I> father is <I>Finarfin</I>, brother to <I>Fingolfin</I> (look above).<P>Which means that Galadriel is cousin to Elrond's Great-Grandfather (Turgon).<P>So I believe you can say they're royal.<P>Too many names? <p>[ October 31, 2002: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> It is sad, isn't it? Like 90% of articles say that Bilbo is Frodo's uncle! Wrong! He is Frodo's cousin!<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, Bilbo was both Frodo's cousin and his uncle. They were related on both sides of the family.

Like LePetite Choux said in the movie they lose the part with Legolas being a prince....i guess i would become to much info for people who haven't read the book.<P>Also people who have just seen the movie and not read the book will want to know exactly how great the real important people who seem so wise and are constantly being talked about are (Galdriel,Arwen, Elrond)so it just makes it easier for the audience to understand how fabulous they are by comparing them to a Queen/Princess whatever <BR>Also the people who write the Fanfiction might not want to go into details and they might not have read the book.<p>[ October 31, 2002: Message edited by: busybee ]

In which case they shouldn't be writing.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Aw, Arwen Imladris, I meant "called by Tolkien"! And...you know that don't you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Here's something I came across last night:<P>Letter 210, to Forest J. Ackerman c. June 1958<BR>[Tolkien's comments on the proposed film 'treatment' of The Lord of the Rings]<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 21. <I>'A splendid sight. It is the home of Galadriel...an Elvenqueen.'</I> (She is not in fact one.) <I>'Delicate spires and tiny minarets of Elven-color are cleverly woven into a beautifully designed castle.'</I> I think this deplorable in itself, and in places impertinent. Will [Mr.] Z[immerman] please pay my text some respect, at least in descriptions that are obviously central to the general style and tone of the book! I will in no circumstances accept this treatment of Lorien, even if Z personally prefers 'tiny' fairies and the gimcrack of conventional modern fairy-tales.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I included more than I needed to! but it's a great letter, Letter 210. Very long, and I would assume that anyone who gets a kick out of Bashki will be amused by it.<P>But anyway, it proves that Galadriel is not a queen.<p>[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

I think people call them Queen and Princess because they either don't know the story, don't care about the story, or are just plain lazy and do not want to explain their importance in Middle-earth. Remember, its <I>Hollywood</I>.

Although he never took it up, Elrond should have been the High-King of the Noldor in Middle Earth after Gil Galad died. Since Elrond is the eldest remaining decendant of Fingolfin, the High Kingship should have passed to him. This would make Arwen a princess as she is the daughter of a king. As to Galadriel being a queen, unless she and Celeborn are considered king and queen of Lothlorien it is wrong. She could be considered a princess, being the daughter of Finarfin the king of the Noldor in Valinor, but not a queen

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In which case they shouldn't be writing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Exactly.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> No idea, they also seem to FORGET about Legolas' princely status... GRRRRRRRRR <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Actually, in a rejection Lothlorien dialogue, Haldir greets Legolas, referring to him as <I>Legolas Thranduillion</I>, which means "Legolas, son of Thranduil", so: if we know that Thranduil is King, then they are referring to Legolas as a prince!