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HCIsland

03-21-2003 01:30 PM

Rate the Changes

We spend a lot of time talking about the changes from book to film and I think we naturally seem to spend more time talking about what we don't like as opposed to what we do. As such, a brief scan through the posts here leaves the impression that the majority of the people here dislike the film, yet in another thread we were asked to rate Two Towers and the average was around 8.5, which obviously indicates a fairly strong support for the movie. In the same vain, I'm going to ask people to rate the changes. I'll average them after a bit.I've taken the liberty of picking out twenty differences between the two films and the book. This is just a representative sample and is not meant to be an all inclusive list, so I apologize if I've left out someone's favourite, or most hated, change.Please rate the changes as they apply to the quality of the film. Here's the scale.<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>1 - The change was a huge mistake and very bad for the film.<LI>2 - I don't think the change should have been made, but I don't think it was too bad.<LI>3 - I think a change should have been made, but could have been done significantly better.<LI>4 - I think the change worked well in the film.</UL>Here is the list of changes.<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam.<LI>2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey.<LI>3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights.<LI>4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel.<LI>5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen.<LI>6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond.<LI>7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb.<LI>8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror.<LI>9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz.<LI>10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf.<LI>11. Changes in Eomer's role.<LI>12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep<LI>13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep.<LI>14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep.<LI>15. Differences in the result of the entmoot.<LI>16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath.<LI>17. Elves at Helm's Deep.<LI>18. Changes in Aragorn's character.<LI>19. Changes in Frodo's character.<LI>20. Changes in Faramir's character.</UL>Please only do this if you have read the relative chapters of the book and seen the film.I'll go first in a seperate post.H.C.[ March 21, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

HCIsland

03-21-2003 01:38 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 4 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 4 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 4 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 4 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 4 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 4 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 2 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 3 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 3 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 4 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 4 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 4 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 3 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 3 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 3 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 4 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 4 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 3 20. Changes in Faramir's character. 1

Airehiriel

03-21-2003 01:57 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 4 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 2 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 2 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 2 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 4 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 4 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 3 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 3 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 4 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 2 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 4 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 3 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 2 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 1 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 1 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 3 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 2 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 1 20. Changes in Faramir's character. 1

Meela

03-21-2003 02:49 PM

1) 4 2) 4 3) 4 4) 1 5) 1 6) 3 7) 4 8) 4 9) 4 10) 4 11) 1 12) 3 13) 4 14) 3 15) 4 16) 4 17) 4 18) 3 19) 3 20) 4

Firondoiel

03-21-2003 03:38 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 4 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 4 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 2 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 2 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 4 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 4 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 3 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 3 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 3 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 2 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 4 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 3 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 2 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 1 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 2 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 4 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 3 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 2 20. Changes in Faramir's character. 1[ March 21, 2003: Message edited by: Firondoiel ]

Sapphire_Flame

03-21-2003 03:56 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. *4* 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. *4* 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. *4* 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. *2* 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. *2* 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. *4* 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. *4* 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. *3* 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. *4* 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. *3* 11. Changes in Eomer's role. *3* 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep *4* 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. *1* 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. *1* 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. *3* 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. *1* 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. *4* 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. *3* 19. Changes in Frodo's character. *3* 20. Changes in Faramir's character. *1*

Eruanna

03-21-2003 04:13 PM

Well here's my view, for what it's worth!1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 4 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 2 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 2 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 4 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 4 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 4 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 2 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 3 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 4 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 3 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 4 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 3 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 2 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 2 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 2 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 4 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 4 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 2 20. Changes in Faramir's character. 1

Rochelle

03-21-2003 04:47 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 42. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 43. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 44. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 45. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 46. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 47. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 48. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 39. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 410. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf.311. Changes in Eomer's role. 212. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 213. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 214. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 115. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 216. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 117. Elves at Helm's Deep. 218. Changes in Aragorn's character. 119. Changes in Frodo's character. 120. Changes in Faramir's character. 1 <= Is 0 an option? I completely am at a loss as to why he was portrayed in such weak light.

Faenaduial

03-21-2003 07:50 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 4 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 4 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 1 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 1 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 4 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 4 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 3 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 4 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 2 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 2 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 4 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 4 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 2 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 2 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 1 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 2 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 1 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 1 20. Changes in Faramir's character. 1

GaladrieloftheOlden

03-21-2003 08:25 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 4 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. TB-4, BDs-3/2.5 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 2.5 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 2.5 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 4 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 4 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 4 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 3 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 2.5- 3.5 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 4 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 3.25 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 4 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. Fall-4, the way Arwen came and things like that-2 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 2-3 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 3.5 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 4 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 4 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 4 20. Changes in Faramir's character. Would be 2- but the acting was so amazing it gets a 4.

Rynoah, the Overly-Happy

03-21-2003 08:38 PM

1. 2 2. 4 3. 4 4. 2 5. 2 6. 4 7. 4 8. 4 9. 4 10. 4 11. 4 12. 2 13. 2 14. 3 15. 1 16. 1 17. 2 18. 4 19. 2 20. 1

The Saucepan Man

03-21-2003 09:04 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. *4* 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. *3* 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. *4* (Hurrah for the lack of "hey dol! merry dol!'s"!) 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. *4* 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. *4* 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. *4* 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. *4* 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. *4* 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. *3* 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. *1* (Gandalf's "exorcism" act renders Wormtongue obsolete) 11. Changes in Eomer's role. *2* 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep *4* 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. *3* (Alas, the Wargs could have been so much better ...) 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. *1* (Just gratuitous) 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. *2* 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. *2* 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. *4* 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. *4* 19. Changes in Frodo's character. *2* 20. Changes in Faramir's character. *2*

Iarwain

03-21-2003 09:42 PM

First of All, I think this is a wonderful idea, and I'd like to commend you, HC, for thinking of it. Now for the ratings:1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. *2 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. *3 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. *1 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. *1 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. *1 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. *3 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. *4 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. *2 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. * 2 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. *1 11. Changes in Eomer's role. *2 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep *4 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. *2 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. *1 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. *1 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. *-5 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. *1 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. *2 19. Changes in Frodo's character. *-1 20. Changes in Faramir's character. *-5[ March 21, 2003: Message edited by: Iarwain ]

Beruthiel

03-22-2003 01:11 AM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. ~4 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. ~4 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. ~4 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. ~3 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. ~3 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. ~4 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. ~4 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. ~3 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. ~4 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. ~4 11. Changes in Eomer's role. ~2 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep ~3 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. ~2 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. ~2 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. ~2 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. ~2 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. ~2 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. ~3 19. Changes in Frodo's character.\ ~3 20. Changes in Faramir's character. ~1

Carorëiel

03-23-2003 09:06 AM

This was an awesome idea. Hope no one minds if I toss in a few comments. I'll try to be brief.1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. *1--It's important that we know Frodo's story is not a "coming of age" story. The compression makes it seem like he's quite a young man (hobbit). 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. *2--Merry and Pippin come off a bit too immature this way. Though I can see how the whole Crick Hollow bit may have been cumbersome to the film. 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. *3--I love Tom, but his removal doesn't hurt the plot. (Our complete understanding of the powers at work in ME, yes; the plot, no.) But I do have to wonder how, in the context of the movie, we can justify Strider hauling at least four extra weapons around with him. 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. *2--In general, I'm against Arwen's expanded role. In the context of that expansion, however, if makes perfect sense to have her replace Glorfindel in the way that she did. 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. *1--Grrr. Chance for important character development (Frodo's) lost. Lost! 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. *4--Love this bit in the book, but it would definitely slow the film way down. Such a long stoppage of the action (I mean plot-forwarding, not battles etc) would be a major detriment to a film. 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. *3--Cave troll battle was a little much. I was personally disappointed that Frodo's mithril shirt was discovered in the mines instead of later. But that's just me. The scene outside the mines where Aragorn discovers the shirt was always one of my favorites. 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. *3 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. *4--I think the juxtaposition of Aragorn's warriorlyness here and his tenderness with Boromir following nicely develops Aragorn. And we get to see Viggo Mortenson kick a**. 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. *4-- <shrug> I thought this was cool. 11. Changes in Eomer's role. *2--Grr. 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep *2 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. *2 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. *1--Gratuitous attempt to get Arwen in the movie. Annoying. Besides, the scene when they come back and they tell Eowyn that Lord Aragorn "fell" reminds me of the scene in Wagner's Ring Cycle where the dudes who killed Seigfried tell whats-her-butt (sorry, not a big Wagner fan) that he was killed by a wild boar. Right. This great warrior was killed by a wild boar. Sure. And Aragorn would go flying off a cliff stuck on a warg. Don't think so. Though the scene between Aragorn and Legolas when Aragorn gets back is very good. 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. *2 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. *1--Gaugh! Why? Why change it? WHY? There's no reason to, and it's illogical within the context to the plot. 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. *2--Somewhat reserving judgement here until I see how PJ pulls everything together in RotK. 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. *3--Since nothing immediately leaps to mind, I guess I wasn't overly disturbed by any. 19. Changes in Frodo's character. *3--Frodo could have a bit more depth, but in general, I think the main points of his character are there. When a story of this magnitude is compressed into a film, some nuance of character is going to be lost. I think it's inevitable. He is portrayed as a bit too much of victim, though. Ie, at the Ford. 20. Changes in Faramir's character. *1--Again, WHY? Without the stark contrast between Faramir and Boromir, we lose the "lesson" of Boromir's downfall, redemption, etc. Besides, we need to be strongly connected to Faramir (positively) in order for events in RotK to have the impact they must.

Arvedui III

03-23-2003 09:37 AM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4, for the movie it worked2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 4, sadly can't have much time for Cricket-Hollow. Thought the metting up was funny 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 4, they couldn't put everything in I guess, Curse people with short attention spans!4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 1, I was looking forward to seeing Glorfindel, not samurai Arwen 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 1 1/2-2 Handled well, but if your gonna give the axe to Glorfindel, at least give the part to Legolas or something remotly acurate.6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 3,neh, could have been done better, I guess they wandted to get going.7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 4 I thought they were cool 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 4, for the flim it worked 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 4) I thought it was done well. Maul/Lurtz had it coming!10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 4 Thought it was really cool 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 3-could have done more with the enormous amount of lines he had. 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 3 Something about did feel quite right. 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 1- that was just silly, in the time Hama get's eaten by one of them, we could have at least seen Shelob, curses 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 2- it was handled well, but shouldn't have been in the movie 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 4, it worked 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 2- why, why, why?17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 2- I thought they were cool, but that doesn't excuse them being there.18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 2, grrr. 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 4 neh, Eijah did good.20. Changes in Faramir's character. 1, What ever happen to the faramir who "would not ake this thing if it lay by the road."?[ March 23, 2003: Message edited by: Arvedui III ]

Lady_Báin

03-24-2003 04:50 AM

1-3 2-2 3-3 4-1 5-1 6-4 7-4 8-2 9-2 10-1 11-*feels stupid* There was a change? 4 edit: Ahhh i see you mean Eomers lack of lines then i would say 2 12-1 13-2 14-1 15-1 16-1 17-1 18-2 19-4 20-1 billion i think that was the worst one ever in the history of mess-ups !!!!!!!!!!RIGHT ON CARORËIEL[ March 24, 2003: Message edited by: Lady_Báin ]

Schmendrick

03-24-2003 03:17 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 3 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 4 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 2 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 2 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 4 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 4 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 2 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 4 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. somewhere between 1 and 2 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 2 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 2 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 1 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 1 (I almost wanted to close my eyes, when this part came...ridiculous!terrible!) 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 1 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 1 (why?????) 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 2 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 2 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 1 (one of the things that disturbed me the most...) 20. Changes in Faramir's character. 1 ( The thing that disturbed me most.)

Darkside

03-24-2003 03:50 PM

1. 3 2. 3 3. 3 4. 1 5. 1 6. 3 7. 3 8. 3 9. 3 10. 1 11. 1 12. 4 13. 1 14. 1 15. 1 16. 1 17. 1 18. 1 19. 1 20. 1

Carlas

03-24-2003 10:22 PM

This was a great idea HC!1-4 2-3 3-4 4-3 5-3 6-4 7-4 8-3 9-3 10-2 11-2 12-4 13-4 14-2 15-2 16-2 17-4 18-4 19-3 20-2

elven maiden Earwen

03-24-2003 10:31 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 4 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 1(barrow weights rule!!) 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 2 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 2 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 4 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 4 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 3 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 3 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 2 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 1 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 3 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 2 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 1 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 1 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 2 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 2-3 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 2 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 3 20. Changes in Faramir's character. 1

HCIsland

03-31-2003 12:51 PM

Well, no one has posted here in a week so I thought I would give the averages. Remember the scale.1 - The change was a huge mistake and very bad for the film. 2 - I don't think the change should have been made, but I don't think it was too bad. 3 - I think a change should have been made, but could have been done significantly better. 4 - I think the change worked well in the film.I'll give the median (middle value) for each as it is what is usually thought of as the best measure of central tendency.1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam.42. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey.43. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights.4 - Seems to be fairly wide support for these three changes.4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel.25. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen.2 - Obviously Arwen rubs many folks the wrong way.6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond.47. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb.4 - I guess most folks like the Cave Troll8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror.39. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz.310. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf.311. Changes in Eomer's role.2 - I think many people would have liked to have seen Eomer at Helm's Deep.12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep413. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep.214. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep.2 - Obviously not a very popular sequence between these two.15. Differences in the result of the entmoot.2 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath.217. Elves at Helm's Deep.218. Changes in Aragorn's character.319. Changes in Frodo's character.320. Changes in Faramir's character.1 - I guess it shouldn't be surprising that Faramir becomes the clear winner of the love-to-hate changes.One last interesting thing.Median for changes associated with FotR - 3 Median for changes associated with TTT - 2H.C.[ March 31, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

Silmarien

03-31-2003 06:53 PM

4 Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4 Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 3 Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 2 Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 2 Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 4 The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 4 Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 2 No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 1 Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 2 Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 1 Changes in Eomer's role. 2 Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 2 Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 1 Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 1 Differences in the result of the entmoot. 1 Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 2 Elves at Helm's Deep. 1 Changes in Aragorn's character. 1 Changes in Frodo's character. 1 Changes in Faramir's character. (I'm with Rochelle is 0, Or Iarwain's -5, And I completely agree with Arvedui III What ever happened to the faramir who "would not ake this thing if it lay by the road."?)

Aiwendil

03-31-2003 07:00 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 2 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 1 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 4 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 1 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 1 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 2 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 2 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 4 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 1 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 1 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 1 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 2 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 1 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 1 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 1 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 1 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 2 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 2 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 1 20. Changes in Faramir's character. 1

BethoHOG

03-31-2003 07:23 PM

1. Compressed time frame between Bilbo's party and departure of Frodo & Sam. 4 2. Alternate method of having Merry & Pippin join the journey. 5 3. Removal of Tom Bombadil & the Barrow-Wights. 3 4. Arwen replacing Glorfindel. 4 5. Arwen taking Frodo to the Fords of Bruinen. 4 6. The Fellowship being formed almost spontaneously in the Council of Elrond. 5 7. Changes in the battle in Balin's Tomb. 5 8. No Sam and other changes at Galadriel's Mirror. 5 9. Aragorn's battle with Darth Maul - oops - I mean Lurtz. 4 10. Changes in the healing of Theoden by Gandalf. 4 11. Changes in Eomer's role. 4 12. Eowyn and the citizens of Edoras going to Helm's Deep 4 13. Attack by the Warg Riders on the road to Helm's Deep. 5 14. Aragorn's fall and his journey to Helm's Deep. 2 15. Differences in the result of the entmoot. 4 16. Changes in Frodo's & Sam's encounter with Faramir including going to Osgiliath. 4 17. Elves at Helm's Deep. 4 18. Changes in Aragorn's character. 4 19. Changes in Frodo's character. 3 20. Changes in Faramir's character. 1

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