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What is Beorn?
What is Beorn? In the hobbit Bilbo calls him a man. Yet he was able to shapeshift into a bear. Something doesn't jive there.
[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ] |
In Letter 144 JRRT said:
"Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man." |
He was a man. And also described as the Chieftain of the Beornings and a berserker.
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What do you mean something doesn't jive there?
Have you met Ole Tom yet?! This guy sings songs and ghosts run away! Tolkien was great at making things not jive! |
Gandalf said that he saw him lookin at the Misty Mt.s sayin that he wanted to go back. And Gandalf also hinted that he might have descended from bears so maybe he's a mix. He's definatley from the Misty Mts. and ya never know what things come from there...
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Wow... I imagined Beorn to be very very old. He said he wanted to go back to the mountains and have it be like before when there were no goblins inhabiting it. So obviously I would conclude that he was there a long while ago when the Misty Mountains were free from Saurons minions. And the fact that Beorn is a furrier.. I cant beleive he is a man.
That doesn't seem right to me at all. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Men that can shapeshift... what a thing. |
Maybe Beorn, was some mix of Numenorean and Wizard. He was a man. He did have some powers that were magical. And he ate honey. maybe bear/wizard/man
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orcs/goblins were originally made by morgothm after the war of wraith, most died but a few survived, then going up to the misty mts, mordor, etc....
so beorn must be fairly old. |
Interesting theory on the Numenorean descendency! I have tried to discover the link and the origin of his skin-changing ability, which might suggest a link to Beren;
Ok, let's look at the Beren - Beorn descendant enigma; Beren - Luthien = Elured, Elurin and Elwing Elured, Elurin were both killed in the assault of Doriath by the Sons of Feanor. Neither had children. Elwing - Earendil = Elrond and Elros Elrond - Celebrian = Elladan, Elrohir and Arwen Elladan and Elrohir did not have children, if they did, it was at least until after the arrival of Beorn. Arwen we know married Aragorn. Elros - Unknown = Vardamir Noliman, Tindomiel, Manwendil and Atanalcar. This line of Numenorians is numerous and is the beginnings of the line of the Dunedain of the North, who may possibly be the link of the early descendents of Beorn. If Beorn was to be descended through the line of Beren, it could only have been through Elros. However, it is unclear where this could have developed or from whom this ability could have been passed. There is no record of any of the line of Elros ever possessing this ability or even using it. Therefore I would contest that the ability to skin-change was ever actually passed from the lineage of Beren. One particular reason for this is the fact that Beren never actually change himself into any beast. Though there are some similarities between Beorn and Beren, the main one is the relationship between the Birds and the Beasts of the forests. Quote:
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Beren is not recorded as ever having changed himself into any other shape or skin. This was achieved by the skills of both Felagund and Luthien. Quote:
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So, where does this leave Beorn? We still can’t answer how he managed to skin-change from Man to Bear. Gandalf again to Bilbo; Quote:
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This also dispels the Maia myth that is frequently suggested. So at least there is some confirmation of the magician theory. Yet it is also clear that Beorn must have been the first of his line or people to have this ability, hence the people being known as Beornings. Quote:
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That's my line though I am sure many will contest it [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Ancalagon'sFire ] [ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Ancalagon'sFire ] |
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This has also been discussed before on different threads, including one devoted to a theory that he was related to Radagast. I wrote an article for the Barrow-downs FAQ, complete with forum links. You can read it here until it's loaded on to the main site. [ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ] |
Aha...make that ascendents!! And congrats on an excellent FAQ [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
[ January 29, 2003: Message edited by: Ancalagon'sFire ] |
Very well studied Ancalagon!!!
Though I have only heard of Maia and Vala shape shifting. This is puzzling because Beorn was a man. Mayhap Sir Tolkien wished to further his explaination and did not have a chance [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] But it is fun to try to decode. At any rate I am stumped?? but that does not mean I stop researching [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] -(~<~>Yavanna |
I don't think he would have had to be that old, alltogether. In the Hobbit it stated that after the Dwarrow-Goblic War (I really have to stop terming this stuff), for the Mines of Moria, most of the goblins were wiped out, and they had been secretly breeding in the Misty Mountains only in recent years.(which is still a long time) So he didn't need to be ages old, but the topic "Of Beorn," which was started by none other than me, the Keeper, not all too long ago, has some rather keen insights towards his powers.
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I am pretty sure Beorn is old. In The Hobbit they are debating over wht he is. Gandalf in the Hobbit says that there are only two options: either he was a bear descended from the geat or ancient bears, or he was a man. I think he was a man. He woudl have probably preffered to be in bear form if he was really a bear. He was also a very large man. NOt a giant, but still very tall (the fringe of his tunic was a bout 3/1/2 feet off the ground.
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