morgoth
 

does anyone think that morgoth rose again in a later age?

In the end of the Lost Tales I think Tolkien had written that he rose again, but that nevere happened.

I don't think he did, but always a new type of evil could come.

I don't think he did, because he was cast out into the Void. Later on, "when the guard of the Valar sleeps," he will come back into Arda, and start trying that old take-over-the-world ploy. That is when the Dagor Dagorath "Battle of Battles" will be fought on the plain of Valinor, and Morgoth will be forever vanquished and killed by the sword of Turin Turambar, and all the spirits of Elves and Men will be released from their respective "holding pens" to aid in the fight.

Hehe. My first two threads were on exactly this topic. The Dagor Dagorath: the final battle. It talks a good deal about Melkor's return in the Unfinished Tales. If you want the results of my query, look up "Morgoth's Return" or "Anyone for a Good Debate"

Really, this idea fascinates me. I really wish Tolkien could have written the final bit of history.


Iarwain

I haven't read enough of Tolkien's works to formulate my own concrete opinions about Morgoth's return, but reading Iarwain's early threads make me tend to think that Morgoth will return at the 'end' of the world.
On a different, but maybe related note, in reply to Iarwain saying that he wished Tolkien would have definitively ended the history of ME, I wonder if Tolkien left it undone purposely, so that we could imagine the end, and in imagining it, make it more our own? Also, could Tolkien have left it undone to say something to the effect of "Here's what happened so far. What are you going to do with it?" Are we going to be on the side of 'good' or 'evil'? I think that if Tolkien hadn't left the history open-ended, it would be harder to be engaged in it because the characters would seem less sentient. It's like how a person in one of the threads said that once a book goes to press the characters are 'dead', but when the book is still being written, the characters are more 'alive.' When the history is still in the making, and not closed off, it seems more alive to us.
I'm probably way off, but those are my thoughts. Hope it's understandable and that I didn't completely defeat the purpose of the thread. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Peace

I agree with you. In the Ainulindalë, it says that Eru ended the vision of Arda right at the Passing of the Elves and the beginning of the Dominion of Men. So even the Valar cannot see all ends. Perhaps even they're in the same situation that we are, not knowing how exactly it is going to turn out.

No, Yavanna, I think you're right: that was probably part of the joy (and obsession) in rewriting that Tolkien had. It still bothers me just a tad that someone could still write a conclusion to Middle-Earth. Just the thought of how wonderful that conculsion could be makes me very, well, wistful. I wish Tolkien were still alive.

Iarwain

I think his whole point was to not have an end. I think the "end" was when the ages started to pass, and mortals never again laid eyes on elves, and the last worm was slain.

Now that we are discussing Morgoth: Why did Ilúvatar not just destroy him or call him back from earth? Would be easy for him to do it right? It would have saved the people of Ëa a lot of trouble.

Why did Ilúvatar not just destroy him or call him back from earth?

The Music had to become reality. The Music was tainted by Morgoth, so Ea too had to be marred.

Would be easy for him to do it right? It would have saved the people of Ëa a lot of trouble.

This is what the Silmarillion says about the third theme: The result was a marred creation. Evil did exist, but it helped to create something more beautiful.


I believe a comment made by Mandos to Manwe also answers the question about why evil was allowed