orcs after baradur
 

what ever happened to the orcs as a race after the fall of sauron?

Well, seeing how most orcs weren't too bright on the side of masterminding their own schemes and/or organising themselves into any kind of societal structures other than their usual divisions/tribes, I would assume that they would be slowly picked apart and hunted down. However, there is also a good possibility that the Haradrim, Easterlings, or any other such "bad guy group" in Middle Earth could have either dominated the orcs or worked with them. Then it would only be a matter of if and when said groups would dispose of the orcs themselves or they were defeated themselves.
Only my speculation though... good question.
Here is also a site that discusses this question a bit... actually it kindof contradicts what I said a little bit [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. http://pub89.ezboard.com/fbree72204f...opicID=7.topic
~Scott

I always saw the Haradrim and co as seeing the error of their ways after the fall of Sauron, much as the Dunlendings did after Helms Deep. This impression is reinforced by Sam's musings on the dead man that he sees when Faramir's forces ambush the Haradrim column on its way to Mordor.

I doubt that the orcs were so lucky , though. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] Isn't there some reference to the Orcs losing all sense of purpose and eventually being hunted down after Sauron's fall? I imagined it as much like ants when the queen of their nest is destroyed.

In the Rohan appendix, Tolkien makes a reference to Eomer hunting the last remnants of Orcs with Aragorn. I imagine they were finished off rather quickly without Sauron.

Aragorn, a good wise king, or genocidal maniac [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I dont think Aragorn even botherd himself with hunting down orcs. It is genicide whiping out a whole rase, even as bad one as the orcs. Aragorn would not like to have a reputation as being "The Exterminator", or something like that. Personally I think most of the surviving orcs after the downfall of sauron fled to the far east and north and abode there, without having the manpower and courage to strike back at Gondor and Rohan. Perhaps they eradicated each other fighting internal wars.

I don't think there's any question but that Orcs, Trolls, ect. survived the fall of the Dark Lord, (just as they survived Morgoth) and continued to be a nuisance for some ages afterwards. As Gandalf says Sauron isn't the only evil power in Middle Earth, there are others even older than he, which might begin to assert themselves now that he is fallen. And there is a definite hint that the Witch King will be back - someday.

In other words Aragorn and his descendents are likely to be periodically challenged by assorted evils for some time. Though any future 'Dark Lords' will be, or at least have once been, Men not fallen Vala or Maia. Though Dark Elves are not an impossibility either.

I think you may be pushing a late twentieth century morality into this. Aragorn isn't Jean Luc Picard.

Do you have a quote for this? I find that interesting as I would have figured that once The One Ring was destroyed the power of The Nine would be gone.

H.C.

When i said genocidal i was sorta joking.

I don't think anyone would mind Aragorn and the Rhorrim wiping out the Orcs once and for all. They were after all a race that was bent on the destruction of men and nothing else.
If anything i think Aragorn would probably think it was is duty to remove all the orcs before they could cause more trouble. If he didn't then wouldn't that be him resting on his laurels.

I thought the same thing HC. They were bound by it and the rings that they wore. I suppose that their rings could've kept them kicking for a while, but then again the power from their rings came from the one ring anyways. At any rate, I think that there is really no question as to whether or not the orcs were sought out and hunted down after the third age, but rather a question of the success of the hunt.
And as for genocide... people don't care about it today, and I doubt that they would've then.
~Scott

It's a short throwaway line at the end of the Witch King's duel with Eowyn. The Chief Nazgul's voice is described as fading into the distance and "- and was never heard again *in that age of the world*."

Maybe I'm wrong but to me that distinctly suggests the Witch King's voice may be heard again in *other* ages - like maybe a few thousand years into the Fourth?

You know, Morwen, there may be something in your idea of the Nazgul coning back at a later Age.
As they were mortal by origin, their ways after physical death were not known (and thus not controlled) by the Valar. And I doubt the Witch King was eager to face Mandos or any of the Powers. Having once defied them, he could prefer to stay in M-E waiting for the second chance, the more so that at the time of his death the War wasn't as yet lost by his side and he stil had his hope.

yes, but why wouldnt the witch king come back in time for the battle of the morannon, or did he know hat they were going to lose? maybe it just takes a long time to come back?

The Witch-King was finally dead, there was no way he could come back. I believe Tolkien didn't simply think mu too much about it when he wrote that "in that age of the world". The other Nazgûl were dead too, they were "alive" only due to the One Ring, and when it was detroyed, so were the Nazgûl. None of them could defy Mandos, and they haven't ever done that. It was Sauron who made them live so long(and kinda defy Mandos), not the Nazgûl.

Did Tolkien not say anywhere about the Witch King returning for the final battle, along with Melkor.

Would Suaron return to aid Melkor in this battle, or is it unlikely

I feel the Witch-King has returned in many forms since the Fourth Age-Genghis Khan, Mao Tse Tso, Adolf Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, Lenin, etc. The Orcs are still out there, wandering around in the darkest of dark places, wishing ill to the light of the world.

I wouldn't say that they were the Witch King. They couldn't *all*'ve been, anyway. Some are/were living at the same time. Maybe you could theorize that they were various Nazgul, but I wouldn't.

Men are men. Not all are good. Some will do 'evil' things. That doesn't mean that they are some kind of embodiment of evil. Just because someone does (very) bad things doesn't mean that they're no longer normal human beings.

And, directly on topic, I'd say that the majority of the orcs were hunted down. I seriously doubt that *all* were killed, and I suppose there were a few individuals, a few tribes, that lived far from other civilizations. Coming out into the open for them would mean death.

Oh, and the Moria orcs. I would bet (with nothing to back me up) that they stayed in Moria for a long time, possibly for the remainer of time. The dwarves would try to kill them off, but how could they do it? The orcs could retreat back into the earth, the orcs would know the territory better than the dwarves (having lived there all their lives), and you couldn't starve them or anything. I'd say the dwarves would try a few times to exterminate them, fail, and deem Moria lost forever.

I'd also say that while other 'dark' races (trolls, goblins, etc.) were not exterminated (as they were not so much affected by the fall of Sauron), but they were much more careful. They no longer had a Dark Lord to back up their evil deeds.

This topic is about the suspicion of what happened to the orcs after the defeat of Sauron, not who is the modern day Which-King. It would be best to get back on topic if you want this thread to still be open.

I would highly doubt if the orcs around Mordor survived long. I bet they were probably completely gone after a couple of years. Was Mordor a "dead" land for the rest of time, or did later things grow and it became a land of plenty? That would be one thing that would kind of explain if the orcs of Mordor survived or not.

It doesn't seem very likely that Mordor would survive for long as a dead land. I think that eventually growing things came back.

But (this'll be fuzzy) wasn't the land north of Mordor, the land that Sam, Frodo, and Gollum passed through, wasn't it barren? If memory serves, nothing would grow in this one stretch of land because it was so poisoned and dirty.

So there were probably stretches in Mordor just like that. But how much would be the question.