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are all species immortal in valinor
I just want to know if you think Frodo, Sam, and Gimli are immortal now that they are in Valinor?
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They are not immortal, but they do have control over how long they live. They live until they decide they wish to live no longer, (very similar to the lifespan of the first men)
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I am not certain if Gimli actually sailed into the West, I seriously doubt it. However Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam went into the West for healing from the ring. After they were restored or healed as much as possible, then they must have eventually died.
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-réd (Special thanks to Sharkû for locating the above quote.) [ December 26, 2001: Message edited by: red ] |
Yes i agree with red....
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First of all its late an im tired, so excuse my sleepyness.
BUT isnt it written somewhere in Silm that the few Numenorians(sorry about the butchered spelling) who landed in Valinor were swallowed into the ground where they still live until the final battle. I mean, isnt Valinor refered to as "the undying lands"? RyAN (time for bed) |
The Númenóreans who landed on Valinor were entombed under rocks until the End because they unlawfully tried to occupy the Undying Lands, in defiance of the Ban of the Valar. This differs from the situation of the hobbit Ringbearers (and Gimli?) who were presumably allowed by the Valar to live out the rest of their lives on Eressëa.
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I was under the impression that Sam did NOT sail into the west with Frodo and Bilbo. Wasnt it said that Sam went on to become the leader of his people? He had a wise and kids.
Gimli, I'm almost sure, also became a leader of his people, i'm not quite sure where though. Oh, nevermind. It was in the Caves in Rohan near Helms Deep. He formed a colony which thrived that in which he was the king. |
Sam did not go with Bilbo and Frodo.
He did become Mayor of the Shire, serving many terms (if that's what they were called). However, after the death of his wife Rose he left the Shire, never to return. He was believed by his daughter Elanor to have gone to the Havens and passed over Sea. Similarly, Gimli is said to have accompanied Legolas over Sea after the death of King Elessar in 1541. Check RoTK Appendix B, The Tale of Years. [ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: Inziladun ] |
i belive that all four of them went into the west and that the valinor have control of who lives in there land (the undying land) and that they showed pity and let them all live there until they chose to pass.
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It says in The Return of the King, in Appendix B(Chronoloy of the Westlands), Later events concerning the memebers of the fellowship of the ring:
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And yes Samwise was mayor for 7 terms. |
Well I guess I just repeated what Inziladun said, sorry about that.
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Are all the animals immortal in Valinor also? Huan the chief of the wolfhounds, was born in the Blessed Realm. I believe that Orome gave him to Celegorm and had followed his master into Middle-Earth. I think that Huan would only die after he encountered the mightiest wolf in the world(but he would die). Now my question is if he had lived in Valinor the whole time, would he also be immortal.
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It seems we have a conflict!
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The LOTR and ROTK therein was published long before the Silmarilion and the Akallabeth therein. So you have to decide, which is more canonical? |
I don't see any real conflict with the statement, however, the way the appendix in ROTK is worded could throw someone off.
It basically says that the Valar want to keep Valinor nice and immortal and if the Numenoreans come, they will die because the Valar can't give them immortality. |
I thought of a reason Gimli could and would wan't to come. Aule the smith could have wanted to see one of the dwarves and a dwarf would obviously want to see Aule.
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Good catch Durelen, I offer two bits of letters that backup the interpretation:
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