The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - Poor Sam...or...Not?

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Sirithheruwen

09-22-2003 03:47 PM

Poor Sam...or...Not?

I have a Sam question that's been bothering me for a long time. Did Sam ever join Frodo at the Gray Havens? My book ends with Sam saying:

Quote:

"Well, I'm back."

My friend said that her's ended saying that Sam sailed off to the Gray Havens. I thought that the ship that took Frodo and Bilbo was that last ship to leave Middle-Earth??? Am I missing something? Please help me!

Nurumaiel

09-22-2003 04:05 PM

In a great lack of time, all I can do is quote Appendix B:

Quote:

On September 22 Master Samwise rides out from Bag End. He comes to the Tower Hills, and is last seen by Elanor, to whom he gives the Red Book afterwards kept by the Fairbairns. Among them the tradition is handed down from Elanor that Samwise passed the Towers, and went to the Grey Havens, and passed over Sea, last of the Ring-bearers,

Lord of Angmar

09-22-2003 04:34 PM

The actually book does not end with Sam's departure from the Grey Havens to the Undying Lands, but it is, as Nurumaiel pointed out, mentioned in the Appendices.

Finwe

09-22-2003 06:45 PM

It is mainly a matter of interpretation, that is all. Some people that I have talked to believe that Sam never did make it to Aman, and that he died at the Grey Havens or thereabouts. Others say that he did sail on the last ship to Aman (along with Cirdan). It really depends on your outlook about the relationship between Frodo and Sam. I would like to think that the two friends were reunited in the Blessed Isles, and knowing Tolkien's penchant for mostly happy endings, I think that's how it would be.

Firnantoonion

09-25-2003 11:23 AM

and the ship on which frodo went to Aman, wasn't the last one. Celeborn lingered some time in Rivendell after Galadriel left, and took ship later, as did Legolas.

(I think the name Last Ship was symbolic for the dwindling of the elves in ME: on this ship, their mightiest lords set sail yo Aman, thus closing the elvish reign in ME)

Amarie of the Vanyar

09-27-2003 07:56 AM

Sam did go to the Undying Lands. Tolkien states that very clearly in the Letters. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Quote:

But in this story it is supposed that there may be certain rare exceptions or accommodations (legitimately supposed? there always seem to be exceptions); and so certain 'mortals', who have played some great part in Elvish affairs, may pass with the Elves to Elvenhome. Thus Frodo (by the express gift of Arwen) and Bilbo, and eventually Sam (as adumbrated by Frodo); and as a unique exception Gimli the Dwarf, as friend of Legolas and 'servant' of Galadriel
Letter no. 154

Sirithheruwen

09-28-2003 11:00 AM

That is a very good point, Amarie of the Vanyar , and as I have not yet read the Letters, I have missed that point.

Finwe :I agree that interpretation is a big part of it, and I liked to think that he DID find Frodo at the havens.

Also, someone's siggy (I don't remember who)says

Quote:

Frodo and Sam are like two halves of one heart

That kinda speaks for itself, doesn't it?

[ September 30, 2003: Message edited by: Sirithheruwen ]

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