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-   -   Men in Valinor? (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=410)

Luinëcolloien 12-25-2002 02:40 PM

Men in Valinor?
 
I just had a very quick question, and I did a search for this. So, I didn't find this, but I very well could have missed it. So if I did, I'm sorry.

I know that a few hobbits crossed over the sea, and (possibly) a dwarf, and many Elves, but, did any Men enter Valinor? I know this is sort of a dumb question, but I was just wondering, and I wasn't quite sure where to find the answer. Thanks!

PS-Merry Christmas!

Morgoth Bauglir 12-25-2002 02:45 PM

well, beren did, tuor probably did, and earendil did(well the deemed him of the elvish race buuut)....and maybe a few more?

and then theres the whole thing about men going to mandos when they died soooo (BoLT 1)

the real findorfin 12-25-2002 03:32 PM

I really don't understand some of these things at times.

When Ar-Pharazon steps onto Aman he and his band of merry men get earthed (albeit they have come as invaders).

It is said a lot in the Akallabeth that Men simply AREN'T allowed into Aman. So why is Tuor, etc.

Did the rules change after the First Age or what??

Manwe Sulimo 12-25-2002 03:46 PM

Well, considering Ar-Pharazon and his men were trying to destroy the Ainur and the Elves in Aman...I think the Valar had a good reason to bury them.

Voronwe 12-25-2002 06:52 PM

Technically all men end up in Valinor eventually, since after death their spirits travel to Mandos before leaving Arda forever. Beren only entered Valinor after death, but was exceptional in that he returned to Middle Earth afterwards.

In the Silmarillion occurs the following statement (in narrative voice):
Quote:

Then Eärendil, first of living Men, landed on the immortal shores
This statement is interesting and rather strange in two ways: firstly it calls Earendil a man rather than an elf - he was in fact exactly half man and half elf. Also, it names him the first living man to land on the shores of Valinor - but what about Tuor? Are we to believe that Tuor was still sailing around the seas at that time, or that he had stopped off in Tol Eressea, or are we to take the narrator's statement with a metaphorical pinch of salt? As far as I can see, it's left up to the reader.

As for men being allowed (alive) into Aman - Earendil was admitted to Valinor because he was a half-elf and because of the message he bore, and Tuor was a special exception, having had his fate changed by Eru to that of the elves. Possibly this was because of Tuor's faithful service to Ulmo, and the fact that he had lived with the elves all his life and had married Idril, an elf.

Leaving Elfwine, in his many forms, aside, the only other mortals admitted to the Undying Lands were the Ringbearers and Gimli - again exceptions, and even they only went to Tol Eressea rather than to Valinor itself.

There are plenty of threads in The Books discussing all these things in much greater depth, just waiting to be dug up.


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