The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - A little note on Sauron

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A little note on Sauron

Since many topics lately have been ending in the question or starting in the question of why anyone would wan't to take over Middle Earth, perhaps this bit of HoME from theonering.net will help...

Quote:

Perhaps the best quote is from "Notes on Motives in The Silmarillion" in The History of Middle-earth, Volume X, "Morgoth's Ring," "[Sauron] still had the relics of positive purposes, that descended from the good of the nature in which he began: it had been his virtue (and therefore also the cause of his fall, and of his relapse) that he loved order and coordination, and disliked all confusion and wasteful friction .... though the only real good in, or rational motive for, all this ordering and planning and organization was the good of all inhabitants of Arda (even admitting Sauron's right to be their supreme lord), his 'plans', the idea coming from his own isolated mind, became the sole object of his will, and an end, the End, in itself *[But his capability of corrupting other minds, and even engaging their service, was a residue from the fact that his original desire for ‘order’ had really envisaged the good estate (especially physical well-being) of his ‘subjects.’]

To this we may add a reminder that Sauron was a Maia of Aulë, and so likely to be interested in the "making" and "creating" of things. He invented the Black Speech; it is likely that the emblem of the Eye was also of his invention.

[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I thought I just said that (in another thread - "Inherent evil") though you found precisely the quote I was thinking of.

I don't know if we're assuming that the later the quote the more definitive it is but there is another interesting quote regarding Thû (as I prefer to call him).

Letter 183 entitled 'Notes on WH Auden's review of "The Return of the King"' c.1956

Quote:

In my story I do not deal in Absolute Evil. I do not think there is such a thing, since that is Zero. I do not think that at any rate any 'rational being' is wholly evil. Satan fell. In my myth Morgoth fell before Creation of the physical world. In my story Sauron represents as near an approach to the wholly evil will as is possible. He had gone the way of all tyrants; beginning well, at least on the level that while desiring to order all things according to his own wisdom he still at first considered the (economic) well-being of other inhabitants of the Earth. But he went further than human tyrants in pride and the lust for domination, being in origin an immortal (angelic) spirit.* In The Lord of the Rings the conflict is not basically about 'freedom', though that is naturally involved. It is about God, and His sole right to divine honour. The Eldar and the Númenóreans believed in The One, the true God, and held worship of any other person an abomination. Sauron desired to be a God-King, and was held to be this by his servants;† if he had been victorious he would have demanded divine honour from all rational creatures and absolute temporal power over the whole world.

*Of the same kind as Gandalf and Saruman, but of a far higher order.

†By a triple treachery: 1. Because of his admiration of Strength he had become a follower of Morgoth and fell with him down into the depths of evil, becoming his chief agent in Middle Earth. 2. When Morgoth was defeated by the Valar finally he forsook his allegiance; but out of fear only; he did not present himself to the Valar or sue for pardon, and remained in Middle Earth. 3. When he found how greatly his knowledge was admired by all other rational creatures and how easy it was to influence them, his pride became boundless. By the end of the Second Age he assumed the position of Morgoth's representative. By the end of the Third Age (though actually much weaker than before) he claimed to Morgoth returned.

The titles of 'God-King' and 'Morgoth Returned' that Tolkien states seem to depict Sauron and his intentions as far more malevolent than say, an overlord or even a 'supreme lord' of the peoples of Middle Earth. Is it that the two statements contradict each other in that the quote from Morgoth's Ring does not appear to assert that like Melkor, Sauron wished to replace Eru in the minds of those peoples he conquered, if indeed they had even heard of The One, or the Valar?

[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: Mat_Heathertoes ]

I also prefer the name of Thu. It is his real name, and Sauron is like the title Morgoth Bauglir. It means "Abominable One" so he is Thu the Sauron. Thu, Lord of the Wolves. Ha!

Sheesh! What does every one have against Tevildo, Prince of Cats? [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]

Quote:

... it had been his virtue (and therefore also the cause of his fall, and of his relapse) that he loved order and coordination, and disliked all confusion and wasteful friction ....

So, in other words, Sauron just wanted to make the trains run on time. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

That's how it always starts...

Could you please direct us to where it is stated that Thu is Sauron's real name? I know it was an early name of his (and by "early" I mean early in his conception, not his personal history), but I am quite positive it is merely an outdated version of Gorthu, which later became Gorthaur. When you post unsubstantiated ideas as if they're facts it confuses people who don't know any better. Please, at least cite your source.