a SURVEY - if you can spare a moment
 

I am interested in doing a bit of research into the various guides and Encyclopedias of M-E that are out there and I would appreciate any feedback you might have along the lines of the following questions:


What did you like or not like in the 'Guides/Encyclopedias to Middle-Earth' that you have you read/consulted.


And what would you most like to see in your 'ideal' guide?

Anything [besides bad artwork, although I realize that is quite important] that you really do not want to see?

What kind of questions would you like such guides to answer if they are out of the ordinary.

Much thanks for those of you who can take the time to answer.

Also, this is essentially the same survey as in Books, so obviouslly there is no need to reply to both.

[ February 20, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

hmmm... I replied to this yesterday, but I can't find where my comments were moved to. Did you read my thoughts lindil, or should I attempt to recreate yesterday's post?

Sorry Phantom, the whole survey was recast, as you may notice, and your reply [for which I thank you] was solely concerned with the old format. So please feel free to reply again to the reworded survey. It should be more fun to answer this time around anyway. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks again to all who trouble to reply.

One thing I'd like to see is pages and pages of maps. I'd want some to be of all of ME, some of just certain regions (Gondor, Mordor, Beleriand, Hollin, Arnor, ect), and most of all, I'd like them to be time period specific.

I'd like to see 5-20 maps of Beleriand from the return of Morgoth up until his defeat. Each map should be of a different time and show, perhaps using shading or boundary lines, where the influence of Melkor was as well as the different princes and kings of both elves and men.

Make gobs and gobs of maps, of all different sizes and of all different time periods. As a matter of fact, have three maps of the same region for each time, one with shading and boundaries, one just focusing on more topographical detail, and one showing cities, fords, roads, ect.

Let me echo that in the strongest terms. When I read the Books, I take great pleasure in following the events on the maps and they are an integral part of the stories to me.

Phantom, your idea of having maps of Beleriand to represent the differing influences of Melkor and the Elves and Men over time is spot on. There is one such map in the Silmarillion, but it only shows the realms of the Elves at their height. And maps showing the migrations of the peoples would be good to.

I keep meaning to get the The Atlas of Middle Earth, and it may be that it covers these matters. But an abundance of maps would, for me, be an essential element of any guide such as that being discussed here.

good idea's, much thanks!

Ah, the renowned lindil !

Can I take it that you are planning to make a guide like this?

I too would appreciate more maps, especially of second and early 3rd age events. Including Tolkien's original sketch maps would be nice too. Battle plans likewise. The atlas of middle earth does this, but the maps often aren't very clear and I've heard they contain errors and omit info from HoME.

As for illustrations, why not rely on Tolkien's artwork? As far as I can tell, its spread through various books so collecting all of JRRT's pictures of Middle Earth in one volume would be great. For other artwork, I'd champion artists such as Ted Naismith. I prefer the 'realistic' rather than the 'fantastical' renditions all too common amongst ME art.

I have the Tolkien bestiary which is good and bad in parts (much like the artwork!). This format is interesting, but perhaps a historical format 'The Illustated History of Arda' for example, would be more appropriate.

Appendices could include lists of names of all the characters with brief details and referencees to the books, family trees and a full tale of the years, perhaps with 'bestiary' descriptions of the races and creatures of ME.

Put me down to pre-order a copy,I guess you'll have it done in a few weeks after finishing off the revised Silmarillion!

[img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

The Atlas of Middle Earth is very nice! Get it! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

In my very long List of Projects and Things to Do i have "To make a historic atlas of Middle-Earth" (is 'historic atlas' the correct English term?)
I am a devoted fan of maps. I have a map of my home town on the wall, and though I know it so well I could go anywhere blindfolded I still cannot pass the map whithout looking at it for a minute or two...

What I want is something similar to an atlas of the kind where you can see migrations, wars, political status etc. etc.

Surely it would involve a lot of speculations since JRRT often mentioned such things only briefly, but I'm sure it would be possible to reconstruct the timeline.

For an example:
'The tale of years' (Appendix B) tells us that by TA 1050 "Hyarmendacil conquers the Harad. Gondor reaches the height of its power."
How far did Gondor's power reach? Appendix A gives a little more information: "The realm then extended north to Celebrant and the southern eaves of Mirkwood; west to the Greyflood; east to the inland Sea of Rhûn; south to the River Harnen, and thence along the coast to the peninsula and haven of Umbar. The Men of the Vales of Anduin acknowledged its authority; and the kings of the Harad did homage to Gondor, and their sons lived as hostages in the court of its King. Mordor was desolate, but was watched over by great fortresses that guarded the passes."
This raises more questions. Which of these areas were populated, and which were just guarded by the army? Which areas can be considered parts of the heartland of Gondor, and which are protectorates? What are the administrative divisions and subdivisions of Gondor? etc. etc.

I would have a great time figuring such things out. But the keyword here is 'time', something I don't have enough of...

Anders

Thanks Rumil for the kind words, and there is no official announcement as yet forthcoming, however should something pan out, the Downs will certainly be the first to know!

All I can say now is that such a project is under heavy consideration, pre-planning, some drafts and such. Whether a entire project will be undertaken and appear is as yet completely unknown, but prayers and hopes for the best would of course be appreciated.

It seems every one is unanimously interested in maps! Of course they are quite a specialty so I can not say in what direction this desirable suggestion will go.

As another visual person, like so many others who requested maps, in addition to maps and more maps, I'd love to have detailed family trees. By detailed I mean: birth and death dates; alternate names from other languages; how the person died; titles or nicknames, if any; or one or two important details of the person, if applicable. --Imladrien

Funny you should mention that Imladrien. I, myself, just started working on a family tree last week just for my own benefit.

The one thing that I always hated about the trees in the Silmarilion is that all of them are connected in several ways, but you can never see it all put together, so you have to flip back and forth all the time to get everything in perspective.

Well, I've actually engineered my own tree so that the entire house of Finwe, Elwe, Olwe, and all three houses of men (the Edain) are all on one single tree. I had to make several rough drafts, trying to figure out where to cross different lines and how long some of them had to be, and where to stick in the different groups, but the end product looks very nice (very easy to follow)!

Every person on the tree has a tiny number next to them, and on the back side of the paper it lists the people in order along with their titles or positions, as well as a couple basic things about them. And let me tell you, I have fallen in love with my creation (I refuse read Tolkien without it now).

I would definitely encourage putting something like that in the ultimate book.

I posted a link a couple of days ago in the books version of this thread that goes to a sample entry. so I might as well do that here It will hopefully dispel any confussion over the format.

That sounds soooo wonderful, the phantom, that I think I'll follow your example and create my own big, beautiful and detailed family trees! Thank you! (scratching my head wondering why I never thought to do it myself.) --Imladrien

I've seen the phantom's tree. It really is beautiful. He did it all by hand of course, but I think he's trying to type up a version of it.

And I think I'll agree with everyone else, and say that a sizable portion of the book should be dedicated to maps. There could even be one to go with every story, pointing out important events.

Tha Atlas of Middle Earth is an extremely in-depth guide to Middle Earth and ALL surrounding lands. It even shows columns for goddness' sake!

From what I've seen and read, there are a few?, some?, mistakes between the body of the Atlas of ME and the maps. Though I appreciate all the work Karen Wynn Fonstad did on the project, I find the style of the maps too busy. I understand that she was showing the detail of the landscape, etc, but, it irritates me.
Journeys of Frodo by Barbara Strachey, on the other hand, shows simple line drawings in black that I prefer, with elevations in red (easier for me to diferentiate and ignore when I want to), but doesn't have the level of detail in protraying buildings, etc, nor the "extra" maps for climate, population, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I like Strachey's style with Fonstad's detail.
--Imladrien

[ February 25, 2003: Message edited by: Imladrien ]

I'll have to agree with nearly everyone who's already answered and say I'd love to see more maps. You can never have enough maps. Perhaps some more of those nice family trees that are in the LotR apendices, but for the elves? Maybe there are already some of those somewhere though. I suppose I'll have to keep thinking [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I don't have nearly enough requests...

I've got the atlas of middle-earth and I absolutely loved it! It was so great and I have it with me whenever I'm reading Tolkien. I'd love to see the ultimate family tree people have mentioned around here, sounds good [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I've honestly only seen two of Tolkien's drawings so a collection of them would be great.
I think this book would be a bit too hard to put together as one. Maybe you could do it in different parts, like one book with maps and drawings, another about the actually land of middle-earth etc. and it could all be part of one big collection?

mapsmapsmapsMAPSMAPS MAPS!!!

OK we get the picture... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] and will see what can be worked out in the future...

Thanks so much for the feedback everyone.

And if anyone cares to feel free to go into what they do and do not like about the Tyler 'companions' and the Foster 'guides'. And David Day's scantily altered series.
Illustrations, maps or lack thereof aside.

If anyone would liketo see some more sample entries I can throw up a link to a few 'A's'.

[ February 27, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

Phantom: I would love to see a copy of this tree. It sounds fantastic! Would you be willing to post it somewhere on this site? You would have a lot of grateful dead if you did...

I would really like to see an intricate map of ME and also, I heard that in some guide, some of the stuff isn't acurate. That completely turns me off to them. Accuracy is of great importance.

I agree with everybody that maps would be nice, but I would also like to see these guides and Encyclopedias to not only the main creatures and events,but also minor ones which I usually can't find in these books.
What tends to be annoying that some Books go overboard and others stay too General. It makes me mad GRRRRR [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Well, I can assure that the level of accuracy [in the pilot project at least] will be of the highest caliber because I drafted the 2 foremost Downs scholars we have!

As for the lesser creatures and events, we will have them all. Anything that makes it into any index of LotR, HoME, Silm, UT and others, will be there.
'Mewlips', you got em'

'hummerhorns', they will be there.

'Boldog's' - you bet, and with commentary by the foremost Boldog advocate.

Dispute on whether Trolls even existed in the first age? for sure.


here is a link to a few sample entries.

Feel free to place a few comments here.

btw ours will, I am afraid easily fall into the 'overboard' category.

[ March 06, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]