The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - Did all the Istari arrive at the same time?

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Did all the Istari arrive at the same time?

I thought Curumo and Aiwendil were first,then The Blue Wizards and finally Olorin,but I'm not sure. So did they arrive together or not?

I'm pretty sure Unfinished Tales have them arriving at different times, but fairly soon after eachother. I'd have to check to be sure.

H.C.

You are right.
First came Curumo and Aiwendil, then the Blue Wizards en at last Olorin. All of them came around 1000 TA

If u read The Silmarillion, it clearly states that all of the five Istari arrived, together. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

You have to keep in mind that the published Silmarillion was unfinished. The section on the Third Age was also a summary rather than a narrative story, so the details (ie, the arrival of the Istari) tend to get a bit hazy.

Radagast was the fourth - not the second.

Unfinished Tales:

Quote:

The first to come was one of noble mien and bearing, with raven hair, and a fair voice, and he was clad in white; great skill he had in works of hand, and he was regarded by well-nigh all, even by the Eldar, as the head of the Order. Others there were also: two clad in sea-blue, and one in earthen brown; and the last came one who seemed the least, less tall than the others, and in looks more aged, grey-haired and grey-clad, and leaning on a staff.

Quote:

Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds...

Thus the order is Saruman, Alatar and Pallando, Radagast, and Gandalf.

[ March 26, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]

In The Peoples of Midle-Earth is given an late Essay of JRR Tolkien about the Blue Wizards that says they came about 1600 SA!

Respectfully
Findegil

Wasn't the version in UT more of who came in what order when they were summoned by the Valar and not by when they arrived in Middle Earth?

I could be mistaken, though! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

I guess it would depend on which book you're more akin to lean towards to, huh?

I don't think so, Thal.

Quote:

Others there were also: two clad in sea-blue, and one in earthen brown; and the last came one who seemed the least, less tall than the others, and in looks more aged, grey-haired and grey-clad, and leaning on a staff.

The UT stuff I quoted above was speaking in the order that they arrived at the Havens and is separate (and given prior to) the account of the council. If based on the order they were picked, Gandalf would be third and not last.

Actually, I've found other quotes about their coming, and it seems Tolkien never decided.

Unfinished Tales:

Quote:

Curunír was the eldest and came first, and after him came Mithrandir and Radagast, and the others of the Istari who went into the East of Middle-Earth, and do not come into these tales.

It could be that the above quote is giving their order of arrival, or, if it is agreeing with the quotes I previously posted, it is only noting that Saruman came first and lists the others without sticking to an order (or perhaps mentioning in order of their involvement in the tales).

Tolkien was notoriously brief in speaking of the Blue Wizards and changed his mind about them too. In The Peoples of Middle-earth Tolkien says they came with Glorfindel in the Second Age. This is the account where Tolkien names them Morinehtar and Romestamo (as opposed to Alatar and Pallando, or leaving them nameless):

Quote:

The 'other two' came much earlier, at the same time probably as Glorfindel, when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age.

Earlier in the HoME XII section, it says this:

Quote:

The wizards did not come at the same time. Possibly Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast did, but more likely Saruman the chief (and already over mindful of this) came first and alone. Probably Gandalf and Radagast came together, though this has not yet been said. (what is most probable)

Nonetheless, it answers the first question plainly:

Quote:

The wizards did not come at the same time.

I'd still go with my previously posted quote from UT, though. Too bad Tolkien isn't around to be asked.

[ March 27, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]