Ulmo's Magic Car ?!
 

Anybody who has read the Lost Tales Vol 1 will have come across this line in "The Coming Of The Valar"....

"Beyond Valinor I have never seen, or heard, save that of a surety there are the dark waters of the outer seas, that have no tides and they are very cool and thin, that no boat can sail upon their bosom or fish swim within their depths, save the enchanted fish of Ulmo and his magic car"

...Magic Car ?...I am assuming JR don't mean something like Herbie or Kit out of Knight Rider !!!...so what the 'eck was Ulmo's magic car ?

Paul.

I'm afraid I don't know because I'm reading that book right now but it sounds pretty wierd. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

Does anyone know?

maybe he meant carp, like the fish [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Etymology: Middle English carre, from Anglo-French, from Latin carra, plural of carrum, alteration of carrus, of Celtic origin; akin to Old Irish & Middle Welsh carr vehicle; akin to Latin currere to run
Date: 14th century

1 : a vehicle moving on wheels: as a archaic : CARRIAGE, CHARIOT
(from www.m-w.com)

That help?

Hrm - I had in my mind an image resembling the Yellow Submarine.

That is funny. I never noticed that.

I would have to agree that car is probably just meaning vehicle in this context. And as he is basically the god of the deep water, I think he could pull something like a water vehicle off.

Somehow while reading this thread The Who's "Magic Bus" crept into my head! [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
I concur with the dictionary definition provided by one of the posters on this thread (dang this Elven Amnesia!) regarding the origin and possible meaning of the use of "car".

The Sindarin word "car" means "house" but I don't think Ulmo was riding an house. Besides it's not really possible that Tolkien used a sindarin word in an english sentence so this verision is not really thinkable in any way so this reply is quite unnesessary. Right?

Say what?!?! [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] Run that by me again, Maeglin.
My brain overflows with the effects of miruvor! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Well, what I thought was just that the Sindarin word "car" means "house". And what we discussed was, Ulmo riding a "car". But that doesn't make sence in any way so just ignore it. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I just read in an Irish fantasy book (can fetch the title if you like)something like this about Manannan Mac Lir, the Irish Sea-God: 'The sea was to Manannan like a flowery meadow that he drove on in his car.' So Tolkien's not the only one and the car seems to go on the surface here...

There's a reference to "the cars of giants" in Moonfleet by J. Meade Faulkner as well. When I first read that I was about ten and I remember thinking: "They didn't have cars in eighteenth-century Dorset" or words to that effect.

Wow! Words sure are incredible things aren't they. Their meanings keep changing, and we don't understand what half the people in the world are talking about.

Do you think there will ever come a time when Tolkien's books are as baffling to some as Shakespeare is to me? Will they ever have to come out with a "modern translation" of Tolkien's work?

it's times like these that we wish Tolkien still lived and we could ask him. Wouldn't it be cool if he could join in our discussions?

Indeed it would be. That is why I try, as much as possible, when arguing a point or answering a question, to use the good Professor's own words. The next best thing to having him here in our discussions is to use the things he wrote in our discussions. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]
That is one of the reasons you will very rarely see me writing in a thread having a as a topic something that Professor Tolkien didn't have much to say on. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ February 20, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]