Political posting
 

Not sure how it works where you live, but here in 'Merica, politics is all about who you know, and what you have to give to get what you want. "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine." For example, before the 'official' vote takes place on a bill, a lot of backstage horsetrading is done so that just the right outcome takes place in the light of day that maximizes the benefits...for those in charge (we taxpayers usually get what remains after the horses leave). A representative may need to vote against a particular bill due to the number of pitchfork and torch carriers in his district, but would rather vote yes as it's something like a sweet pay raise. So he may make a deal with the party boss that allows him to vote "nay" though only after the bill is sure to pass. In return, he owns the party boss some favor that gets cashed in at some point.

So what about you?

Did you ever, overtly or covertly, ask someone to post on one of your threads (or one of your favorites) just so that you could continue to post there? What did you have to give in return? Have you ever given rep to anyone who posted on one of your threads, hoping that they would come back Pavlovishly looking for more, and in doing so, inflate your thread's numbers? Have you ever schemed in the dark of night (an aside: dark of night doesn't work as well when written 'night dark,') with another member to 'work' a thread?

Though at this time I have no evidence - nor will I present any - but once a member had two nicks, and would have the most interesting conservations with himself/herself. Again, I have no proof, but the posting was just too 'in sync' to be posted by more than one brain.

And by the way, yes, the title of this thread was kind of a ruse to get you here.

Yeah, I thought so. I also thought "I thought political posting was illegal here. Have lots of people been breaking the rules?"

Anyway, my answer to your question...No...I haven't done exactly what you just described. But I HAVE done something kind of like what you described. That is, I've repped people hoping to be repped in return. :rolleyes:

-- Foley

You deceitful scoundrel! :D I thought the title might be legitimate, as I know some here have expressed displeasure with the forum rules on rare occasions.
I can honestly say I have never done as you describe, though I too have been guilty of giving a rep here and there that may not have been entirely deserved by the recipient, in the hopes it would be reciprocated.

I used to wonder if people thought I invented SamwiseGamgee for the purposes of the Warg and Warg Rider Appreciation Thread, because he never posted anywhere else. But he is my good friend outside the Downs and that's where all the Warg tales originate.

On the other hand, I've already admitted that Formendacil is actually me.

Curse your cleverness sir. Though it did get onto your thread.

I do try to rep people in the hopes maybe I'll get some in return. However, half the time Firefox says "no, thou shalt not rep anyone for a month!" And for some reason the internet flatout refuses to let me open the rep box to make comments. There have many many, many posts I've wanted to rep, but couldn't. So when I receive reps I feel bad because they're usually from people I'd like to rep in return (in WW and RPGs mostly).

Have you already tried right-clicking the rep-button? I mean that changed during the last major update of the site. So you need to right-click and then open it to a new window to rep anyone. You should try it with someone who's been the most helpful... ;)

I quess I have done that once or twice - not knowing it's a sin or politics though. :rolleyes:


Repping others just to pressure them to do the same sounds a lot more sinful. Like in any human communication giving a rep to someone seems to basically say not only "Hi there, I approve what you do" but also "I approve that you are here with me". And from the latter meaning we get the pressures. If you have made the post of your life you feel different receiving a rep from it than when you need to wonder why on earth someone would rep me from that piece of nothingness.

Even if I think there is some quite "groundless repping" which might have some intentions behind them speculated in Alatar's post I wouldn't like to discourage anyone to rep others either.

I mean some people just are nice and they know that receiving a rep feels good even if it's not such big a deal. It's like casually saying to someone you meet "Hi, I like you" which can only feel good. So why not do it every once in a while? There's not too much good will in this world in any case. :)

PS. The last sentence should be read literally as it is - that there is not too much good will - how could there be too much good will? There's always room for some more. So I'm not saying that this world is a cruel and evil place because it isn't...

Yes. Me too.

But as for the given questions, I have to reply no to both of them, unless inviting people to your WW game counts as this inviting you spoke about. Or at most, when your friends on MSN ask you "what are you doing" and you say "I have just posted a new thread" (not that I'd do it very often anyway. It's more like "I have just posted on XY's thread, I like it, you might check it too, it's really interesting"). In any case, repping people in hope to get some rep back - that's not the way it works. As if all was based just on action-reaction. Yes, it is true that I cannot get rid of the feeling that sometimes, when I get a rep from somebody, I feel a bit like I should rep the person, if I haven't repped him/her for anything for a long time. But then, I am just "Well, as soon as I see a good post from him/her, of course I'll rep it. But not now - I have no reason to do that."

So, what have I just done by this? I just made it clear for the people that they cannot expect me to rep them more if they rep me, so everybody will cease to rep me from now on ;)

On the other hand, that is something which sounds familiar. :rolleyes:

I can remember once repping someone because I wanted them to rep me back... and it never worked. :D Want to hear more? I repped alatar who had praised my new thread in his first post on it, and I was like "nice that you praise it, but can't you rep it if you like it?" and then I went to rep his post just to give him a nudge. Okay, I was considering repping it anyway, but I might not have repped it had I not had this extra reason. ;) But you see, it did not work, I learnt my lesson.

Admittedly, these days when I rep people for some threads I have also participated on (books discussions, RPGs, ww games, paper telephone, whatever), of course I hope they will rep me in return. But it's not definitely the reason why I rep them. (If getting rep back was my motive for repping, I would not rep people as much as I do. I give out far more rep than I receive, but I don't complain.) And of course there is the psychological basis (I swear I don't intentionally abuse it even though now it must sound like that :D) that if you rep someone very often, they are maybe more inclined to consider your posts rep-worthy. I know I rep people who are generous with their reps more generously than those who are not. It's subconscious.

I've also asked or hinted that people should post on some threads, but rather seldom and not forcefully at all. So I'm not sure if it counts.

1. Who really cares about rep in here? Green dots are a nice way of saying someone you like their posts but it doesn't bring you any honour or prestige... at least not in my book.

2. Who really cares about getting a thread of his/hers bumped? If the thread isn't interesting, then too bad, you can of course try and revive it, but if people don't post why shoudl you try...

I really don't see what the big deal is supposed to be really.
It's anyway probably just a trick by alatar to get us to rep him for this thread anyway.

:D Probably. :D

Exactly, that's why I like it. It's nice to tell people they have good posts and it's nice to get similar feedback from your own posts. That's why I think people should spread more reputation and not worry too much whether something is "worth repping" or not.

A clever ruse to get a rep, Nog?

I actually started doing that shortly before I took to modding this most recent of WW games. I felt I should get it to work so I can praise the players and thank them for joining the game in the first place.

Interesting subject.

How about repping someone in the middle of a heated discussion to soften him/her up in order to "win" the argument or to smooth things over? Ever done that?

As for the subject of reputation points, I'd like to say I don't care, but that'd be a lie. It is always nice getting some green and if I have an active posting period without any, it is something I notice. Certainly doesn't get me down, but I notice it.

Then again I don't hand out too many either. For some time I wasn't even aware of the repping system. Also, I tend to take many posters for granted who always deliver quality stuff. In a way they raise the bar too high for themselves and it's hard to say one particular post is especially great, so you end up repping none of them. Until you get a rep yourself from that person and somewhat guiltily responds by giving one back for any old post.

Lommy is probably right. Spread the love.

Then again, as a trained economist I know that the value of all things depend on the availability.

The value of a statement of love exists in its sincerity rather than in its frequency. Love does not depreciate.

Spoken like a true Romantic.

I must say I recognise myself from that picture as well! Although I've noticed that I seem to try and avoid giving the impression it is because of that and so will rep that person back some time later after s/he has posted something that I consider worth repping...

It depends on whether one wishes to see love as a commodity. Which I wouldn't encourage. :p
But then again, I'm not sure how should we define love in this context in the first place - I mean if we still continue speaking mainly about repping others on the 'Downs... :)

A cynic would say that the love is never as strong as when it walks out the doors. ;)

I am guilty of this and admit if freely. There have been threads where we have vote off's and I've sold my vote in order to further my own cause. There have been some fiendish schemes on those threads...bluffs, deceit, double crosses etc...

I don't start many of my own threads and I realize that most of mine are fairly lame anyway so why kick a dead horse?

In a former era (meaning when I was more active and prior to the rep reset) I was quite the rep hound and hoped that in giving rep I would receive rep...:rolleyes:...I have since changed and no longer do so...at least that's what I tell myself. But be it known that when I give rep it is sincere. I won't rep something I don't like.

Well, firstly, here's my take on the rep system:

I think it is meant for newer people to see who is and who is not a quality poster here on the forums. Because after a while you anyway form your own opinion and decide who is for you a quality poster and who is not. Also, with red reps you can see who you should maybe stay away from.

With everyone spreading rep around nothing will really change, the distibution will probably be similar, say with many people here repping some of the current top rep members for their continous great posting and fewer people repping people who don't do that much or great stuff according to the general opinion.

Meaning that by spreading love, Lommy, the only thing I expect to change is that you will have six green dots and I will have two. It will all just proportionatly go up, I see no reason for anything else.

So in the end, the quality poster recognitions will remain the same in here, the differences between posters as well, only the reasons for repping will no longer be as "serious" and some will no longer wait for something special so as to rep.

Anyway, since repping people is not and cannot ever be standardized you cannot really say that the rep levels represent the general opinion here on the BD, but just an approximate.


So as to sum up all this:

1. By spreading more love overall nothing will really change.

2. New members will always see by the reps who is a good poster and who is not.

3. Members who "fight" for rep and take pleasure from surpassing someone in rep levels have in my opinion misunderstood the point of it all. It's not about being better methinks.

4. Even if people still so to speak "fight" for rep, it won't change anything about the system, because bad posters won't receive anything no matter how much they rep in return.

Not that I've ever been accused of being a cynic....

The only political skulduggery I ever indulged in was in the old Survivor games, but that was because I was under the evil influence of the Machiavelli twins, aka Saucie and Kuru.

Wow! Don't I feel lower than Nameless Things gnawings! But let this be a lesson to others, thinking that somehow alatar has any feelings or sense of fairness. He's a greedy and misery old wizard he is (and Lommy is too generous by half).

But please note that I really would rather get a note than a rep - it used to be that, in the old system, after you got so many reps you could order stuff from the Green Book, much like collecting green stamps of old. Now, I appreciate the rep only as it acknowledges that someone read something I'd written (and in Lommy's case, she must not be reading too closely to be repping me ;)).


I've done the same thing, trying to nudge the system with rep or two, but that's the only sins I'm confessin'.

But we need not talk about rep, as that really wasn't my intent. For example, what if you were in a conversation, and suddenly you thought up a killer one-liner, but...but someone had to say something that would allow you to drop this laugh bomb. Would you not try to game the conservation, steering it so that with some probability someone would say the line you needed? And what if, like in the game of Bridge, you had a compatriot, and somehow could get a note to this person to work the line into the conversation?

Now extend this to postings on the Downs. Or isn't everyone else as coldly manipulative as me?

And, though I know what would get people here, there is a political component to our postings. I don't mean politics, as in RL, but here too.

Reps and drums and sausage rolls
 

Hmm, repping,

as a 'not high volume' poster I sometimes forget about reps for months (years?) on end, then suddenly remember and have a rep-fest for posts I've especially liked. Though it is interesting to note the number of 'please spread your rep around before repping xyz again' notices that I get! (You know the usual suspects)

Also I like to rep somebody whose nick I don't recognise if they make a good post, as they might be new and a bit of encouragement must be welcome.

I once got a rep in return for one I'd given to a protagonist in a heated debate, whose position I agreed with and wanted to support without being too inflammatory on said thread. It felt wrong! Undeserved rep is surely unsatisfying.

I guess its only natural that you will rep more on threads to which you have contibuted, as those are the ones you pay most attention to.

No. Nobody is. How disgraceful!

Did you know, the reason why I did not open this ages ago, was because I am scared of anything tagged "political"? Must be an extension of my many phobias in school.

On repping, I usually don't, because I think there's something wrong with my browser or my connection or my PC, sometimes the rep thing doesn't open. So I don't.

And despite my age in the BD I didn't know the existence of rep points until when I changed my avatar, when I saw those things. At first I really thought hard what were those and how those worked, until it just hit me. :o

Gaming the Conservation
 

A hunt, is it? :D

Sounds like this would be an infinitely more challenging, intriguing, imaginative, and entertaining endeavour, as here on the Downs you can't ply other "members of the conversation" with martinis and cocktails and spritzers--to say nothing of tantalizing appetizers--as you could in a RL conversation.

But it certainly would explain having two (just two?) nicks, as you mention in your first post. And oh the problem with plying the other nick with cocktails. :D

And just how much work do you get done in your RL work? ;)

Gil-Galad that went something like that. I believe it was: "Love does not blow up and get killed."

I guess I've been guilty of repping people in hopes of them repping me back, but I've always been an oddball in life so reputation doesn't matter that much to me. Though I can see why Lommy has so many rep points! "He who sows will also reap.";):D

Looks like I have my work cut out for me.

Exactly. Now I could PM you and ask, "Dearest Bb, wouldst you post on the ____ thread and bring up the following point?" But where's the fun in that? More fun would be trying to steer the conversation into where you need it to go, especially when you're dealing with members like Bb, who lives only to confound.

And just how long does one need to wait before double-posting? There are a few threads hanging now to which I am the last poster. I'm sure that I could find more to say on each, but as no one else seems to care, I have to wait.

Or do I? Is there a way (besides what I'm blatantly doing right now) that I could get those threads restarted yet not double post?

Okay, not to say too much, but we're here on a site in which people discuss a fantasy book, and at times get *way* too worked up over major things like Balrog wings...so what I'm saying is that, possibly for some, courting oneself (or more) seems like a possibility...:eek:

Some of us can multitask, and as alatar posts here while the RL me works in RL, there's more than one person on the job.

Oh my!

They say one can lose her virginity / his boyhood only once but this discussion kind of makes me question that statement... :rolleyes:

Okay. I'm forty and thence a gaffer in this envirovenment but I have never thought of myself to be a total fool. Yes I know one can show around being anything or anyone in the netlife but that the social-laws and basic human psychology of RL can't be escaped. I know these.

But somehow I have just lulled myself into believing that people on this forum were exceptions to the rule... well most of us. And indeed I'm not sure how exceptional my imaginations would be. I mean go to any popular sites that have tens of thousands of posters everyday and you should meet thousands of imposters and fun-makers. But somehow I though here in the cozy silence and darkness of the Barrow-Downs I actually thought I was discussing with some real people - like on the exclusively scientific web-fora and possibly other non-commercial, subject-based sites. Not all the fora in the net are for personal ego-testing and -tripping (even if one can do that as oneself too! :().

So pointing at the last one in the brackets you ask about the "real people"? A good question. But let's settle with whatever we are here; some of us want to show how bright they are with the Tolkien trivia, others wish to show how much brains they have, some may want to escape their "serious role" in RL here just to have fun, others will be serious here as they are the jokers in the RL, some may have trouble being jovial in the RL and here they are the heartiest of people and vice versa, etc... Yes, that's not unherd of nor improbable. But I have thought people here were being consistent. And the 'Downers I have met they all have quite fitted the image I've had about them online (except they have been a lot nicer and "more worthy of being friends with" I could have ever imagined). Some people just go openly online - and in the best case continue their relationships on RL!

But you're right. This is not so secure one might think. And what you guys say makes me reconsider a lot of things here.
*just imagining whether alatar actually is also the phantom, or whether Saucepanman has not actually left us but continues his career here as Sally, or if I ask for Form to come and visit my house on his trip to Finland and he turns out to be an atheist!* :D

Woof!

That's hair-raising!

PS. Alatar: I really can't see how much you think about this PM:ing another Downer to make a line so that you could then come up with the stinger... or a punchline. That thought has never occured to me...

Seriously, you need to be more suspicious and paranoid! ;)

Not even as a wish? "If only *someone* would mention X..."

Note that I agree with you about the members here. I'd recently been to another forum - and quit! - as I got too used to people being genuine, sincere, nice, fun, caring, without big-time issues, etc, like we find here, and over there it just wasn't the case. :eek:

And also note that, as far as I'm consciously aware, I'm only one nick/member/etc. However, I can't speak for any alternate personality or demonic possession that lives within me...though Hyde knew about Jekyll and vice versa....hmmm...but they didn't have the internet back then...

Interestingly, though members hesitate to double-post on the Downs, we have no forum rule against it! If what someone has to say is on-topic, Tolkien-related, and devoid of chattiness (and non-aggressive as well), it can be posted, no matter who wrote the last active post on a thread.

Carrying on conversations with onesself seems rather boring to me*, so I wouldn't advocate it as a rule, but if a renewed post gets a discussion going after a break, go for it!


*A wise person once said, "You ain't learning' nothin' while you're talkin'!"

Hmmm ...a certain wizard might take issue.Something I notice more & more:p

Though it's not a rule, I try not to double post as, as is obvious, it seems that I am having a discussion with myself, which truly is boring (though therapeutic). That said, sometimes a new thought shows up, and instead of adding it to a pre-existing post (where it would go unnoticed, and that would be shame and a loss for all humanity ;)), I have to double. This bumps up the thread, and maybe there's someone who hadn't noticed the first hundred times through, and this new poster will add to the thread, in which will be breathed new life, again to the benefit of humanity.

Why not, instead of all of the Machiavellian intrigue, have a 'lonely threads' list where people with terminal boredom can go and elect to restart a thread that has gone past its time?

Oh wait, I think that we already have this in any forum's thread list. :(

I am going to go out on a limb here and make a confession. This is more about trying to avoid responsibility than trying to gain points/votes, but...

I expect several people had suspicions or were completely aware when I did it (I didn't try very hard to seem different), but...I have RPed under a different username (only once, and it was a very brief game! Also it was 4 years ago if you are wondering...) because I wanted to participate in a game but felt guilty about abandoning and not being active enough in games I was already in... Is that lame or what?

So I can definitely see that being a punishable offense (and it's just disrespectful) but I'm putting that out there. Putting out my wrists to be cuffed, I suppose.

Why? I have this guilt issue.

On that note, I do wonder about a few RPers who seem so very...similar...

This thread reminds me (at least in some of the direction it has gone) of another that discussed how "real" people were behind their screennames - as in, how much they behaved as themselves rather than trying to be someone else.

That's something that's hard not to consider in this digital age, where possibly the only contact you have or will ever have with someone is through a forum such as this, or an online game group. The days of people having just a few friends that they all knew intimately are gone, for better and worse.

Tell us all of your secrets... (Wow! This thread is really paying off! ;))

Sorry; I'm unfamiliar with the word I highlighted. ;)

Some of us, sadly, are no more or less than what we seem.

Not necessarily - if I may use myself as an example, I have a rather extensive social network, mostly thanks to the BD, but I've also managed to get and keep three very close RL friends. I feel I have got the best sides of both the old and the new way of having a social life.

And you can even analyze away why I decided to confess :eek:, and I will rep you for any interesting conclusions! :Merisu:

Yes, it's always weird to me when I talk to people I know 'in RL' as people will say (whatever that means, eh?) about people I only know in an online context. But of course, the authenticity of someone is always in question (let's get philosophical!), regardless of how you know them, really...though anonymity adds so many more dimensions. I must say I at least am much bolder thanks to anonymity, if not necessarily not myself (ohh the negatives).

Much agreed. I have old friends that, sans email, I would have a hard time staying in touch with. And with inventions like this forum, I have new people that I can annoy as well. ;)

The only difference that I see (or will admit to) between me in RL and FL (forum life) is that here, you read what I've had at times the chance to edit, sometimes even after some thought. In RL you don't get that chance.

I don't know you, but will take a swing at it anyway as long as you *don't* rep me.

Hmm...is it that you were quite pleased at your deception? Did you feel a little 'freer' in this other persona, and so did things that Durelin wouldn't? And now you feel guilty as you have some feelings/relationship with those with whom you RPed, and you feel that although they've been forthright with you, you haven't been with them?

Or, being more cynical, are you using your confession as a way to acquire sympathy? Or are you trying to smoke others out..trying to get them to say, "me too"?

alatar,

Nope to all of the above, but thanks for the cool thread! It has given me ideas. "Eeeexcelent, Smithers."

:D

Durelin,

This thread reminds me (at least in some of the direction it has gone) of another that discussed how "real" people were behind their screennames - as in, how much they behaved as themselves rather than trying to be someone else.

Oh, I've definitely done that on the BD. I joined when I was seventeen, that's my excuse!... Or an explanation, at the very least. Are our online selves any less real than our offline selves? That's the question, I guess.

Sure, I believe you...it's your story and you're sticking to it.

Note to readers: See how Lush has already admitted to being less than forthright right after denying everything?

That's political-speak if I ever saw it...;)