Films gain major convert
 

I am sure many of you are aware of the excellent site The Tolkien Library run by Pieter Collier. It is a great way to keep up with print news regarding JRRT and Middle-earth. They have a feature article which came out over the weekend titled BEST TOLKIEN BOOKS OF 2007. Among the books featured was The Frodo Franchise by Kristin Thompson.

The Collier site says this about the Thompson book:

The part I felt was worth noting was the sentence near the end where the author says they were "very much against the movie adaptions, but now have changed my view almost completely..."
Looks like the Purist camp has a major defection and the film buffs have gained a well known convert.

I really don't understand the division of fans to film buffs and purists and making these two camps opposite to each other and having some sort of class wars... Plain silliness, if you ask me.

I think a 'major convert' would be someone like CT or Verlyn Flieger.....

Shippey was never a Purist in the first place. At best a Pragmatist.

I think hyperbole is simply a functional aspect of StW's style. :)

That might explain his taste in movies too. ;)

And who would that be then????
Perhaps, maybe I will have a look.
And I suppose no one who dislikes the films in any way can possibly do so?
And??
And which people would that be?
Good I could do with fertiliser for my garden.
Why? Tolkien fans did not need someone to tell them that 'The Hobbit', 'The Lord of the Rings' and 'The Silmarillion' were good books. They told the critics. So why would Tolkien fans need someone to tell them that they should fall down and thank the divine PJ for what he put on screen. I make up my mind on what PJ showed me the same as I did with what Tolkien showed.
Perhaps he should have watched the films before making up his mind. Personaly, I was dubious of the claims I had heard for the films and knew that they would not fallow the book as some said. So in watching them I found that while I disliked the unnessasary changes make to the story by PJ, overall the films were for the most part enjoyable. I very much doubt that increasing understanding for the rubbish will change my view of them which can be summed up by a Meatloaf song. "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad".

Lord Gothmog..... anybody who quotes from the great Meat Loaf -- well Jim Steinman actually, cannot be all bad.

I did think it was interesting that after all these years minds - or one mind in this case, has been changed. And the person is of some note in Tolkien circles for his website which does a great job at reporting book news.

Bethberry - regarding my style and approach --- I did not write the story, merely copied it and reported on it with the exception of my comment at the end. But thank you for noticing ;)

Thank you. It is true, not All, ;)

I agree that it is interesting. But to me, the only changes of mind that I would take real note of would be JRRT (impossible) or PJ (unlikely). From what I have seen in threads about the films is that many of the opinions were set in stone before the films were even started, let alone released.

The one opinion that I had about the films that was set in stone, was that Nobody could really 'Get it Right'. The reason I felt (and still feel) this, is because The Lord of the Rings is Mythology. I have yet to see ANY film based on mythology where the film maker 'Gets it Right'. The best that can be hoped for is that an enjoyable film is made. :)

In my view, PJ made some major errors in all three films but managed to make two of them enjoyable.

Well, usually it's the purists who seem to draw the battle lines. Many seem to have the opinion that the terms 'movie lover' and 'hardcore Tolkien fan' are mutually exclusive; that only purists are real fans of the books and movie-ists barely know anything about them. Plus there's a 'I'm better than you' feeling among them.

No offence to barrow-downers; I'm talking about various other purists I've found over the internet that made my blood boil with their attitudes.

Lord Gothmog, you'll find that many of the greatest fans of Tolkien's works are also fans of the movies, and many even helped in their making. Alan Lee, John Howe, David Salo, Michael Martinez, Ted Nasmith etc. And as for Christopher Tolkien, to the best of my knowledge he's never even watched the films, so I don't believe his opinion of them is wholly justified.

I am well aware that "many of the greatest fans of Tolkien's works are also fans of the movies" and I have no problem with that (though I would change 'greatest' to 'well known' and would include in the list Christopher Lee ;) ). I formed my opinion of the films after I saw them and while I am not a "Fan" I did enjoy two of them at least.

As for Christopher Tolkien, he is as entitled to his view as anyone else. I would take the same note of his opinion of the films as I would any other.

When I said
I was refering to the fact that many who argued on threads about the films either as "Purists" or "Filimies" simply continued with the same unchanged views.

I will say that the majority of posters on such threads I have seen did wait to see the films first though. :)

Here is a fuller explaination from Pieter Collier of the Tolkien Library website regarding his changing opinion on the films.

I find it admirable that he would change his opinion after gaining more knowledge of just how the film business works and the hurdles Jackson had to overcome to get a quality product on screen. In my humble opinion, many others would do well to educate themselves to the process to gain a fuller knowledge of just what movie making entails.

It does show that he is at least open-minded enough to accept new ideas. Perhaps I should have a read, maybe it will give a good reason for having Arwen put a sword to Aragorn's throat.

He has.

BTW, most Tolkien scholars are not disposed to regard the names "Salo" and "Martinez" especially favorably.

How do you know?

Why is that? They certainly know their Tolkien well. Martinez's essays really helped further my understanding of Middle-earth, and Salo has to be one of the best Tolkien linguists out there.

EDIT: Salo I understand. Whenever there is a shortage of defined words in a Tolkien language, he makes up new words and grammar to 'fill the gap' which, I suppose would provoke the ire of some Tolkienists. For example, most of the Khuzdul, Orcish, Black Speech etc. used in the movies are actually words invented by Salo, since Tolkien only defined a handful of words for those languages.

We correspond. He was not impressed.

Salo: in addition to synthesizing 'neo-Sindarin', Salo also has a habit of 'correcting' attested JRRT forms when they don't fit his personal theories- and then not indicating that he's done so. It doesn't help that he continually badmouths other Tolkien linguists.

As for Martinez, well, "His knowledge is deep, but his pride has grown with it." MM does know his stuff (when he's not using it to prop up one of his crank-ish theories)- but he's possessed of a singularly abrasive personality, which manifests itself in flames, accusations and personal insults. Not many people in the community can tolerate him any more.

I thought Christopher doesn't communicate with anybody except through his lawyers? Well, if that's true, could you tell me what he thought of the films?

You make him sound like some sort of misanthropic old hermit, keeping the rev'nooers off his still with a shotgun!

CT is a very pleasant, sociable and witty fellow. He doesn't give out his home address to just anybody because, come on, do you remember what happened to his father before he fled into hiding in Bournemouth? JK Rowling doesn't give out where she lives, either.

You can write to him, if you like, c/o his publishers (like any author); and if your letter is polite and intelligent in due course you can expect a reply.


I'm afraid I can't. This is an especially sensitive area, for reasons discussed on this board; and CT wouldn't want his private critique circulated publicly. Suffice it to say he thought a better job could have been done.

Interestingly, if you use the Ixquick search engine phone directory you can get addresses for both Priscilla (Oxford) & Adam Tolkien (in France)

though it don't say if they're current...

Priscilla has always been in the Oxford phone book. Apparently she doesn't attract the number of deranged fans that besiege her better-known brother. Adam's address I didn't know about, but I know you can reach him by e-mail through the 'Contact' page at www.tolkienestate.com (he's the webmaster).

Interesting. William, could you tell me CT's publisher's address? I would love to write him. Thanks.

I respect Christopher's privacy, but I wish he made his views on the movies public. It would be very entertaining to read a nice, long commentary on the films similar to what Tolkien wrote for the Robin Zimmerman script.:D

By the way, WCH, does he read e-mails or will I have to go to the trouble of writing and posting a real letter?

CT doesn't do e-mail. He's 83 years old, and of another generation. He typed all of his published books on a manual typewriter!

In the US use:

c/o Houghton Mifflin Company
222 Berkeley Street
Boston, MA 02116-3764

There is something warm and comforting about picturing CT huched over an old manual typewriter pecking out more notes on Middle-earth history. Use of a modern computer and keyboard somehow just does not seem right in that world.

I don't know. I have most of JRRT's books in e-book form, and while the feeling is different from reading the hard copy, I find it's a lot quicker to finish. For example I first read Unfinished Tales in e-book form and finished it in just 3 hours. Later I was surprised to find that it had over 300 pages.

You do realize that's illegal, don't you?

zxcvbn ..... could you explain how it is so much faster to read an e-book than a regular book? This really astounds me. And everyone who would get JRRT's works in e-book form should be reminded of the personal note to potential customers placed in the LOTR Ballantine editions following the Ace Books debacle. Perhaps someone owning an old paperback can print that admonishment for us. Perhaps e-books are the new Ace Books in that regard?

Here it is, straight from the Foreword to my 1973 Ballantine's edition. The most important sentence ("This paperback edition...") is also printed on the back of each of the separate books. This paragraph is no longer included in the Foreword of new editions and certainly bears repeating under these circumstances.
May I add an official word on behalf of the Downs administration: We do not condone any illegal downloading of films and books and will remove all links and references to them from this forum. Thank you!

Hmmm...looks like my post kicked up quite a fuss. Let me tell you that I own all those books in hard copy as well. When I want to lie down and get comfortable with a nice book I use the hard copies. I normally only use the e-book versions when I'm hunting down quotes and references for Tolkien discussions(Adobe has a 'search' function which really helps). In fact, that's the main reason I downloaded them: looking through the books for the exact lines can be time consuming.

The words 'hole', 'in a', 'digging', 'stop' & 'when you're' spring to mind.....

Okay, okay. No more mention of that. I suppose I should delete it now...

Thanks a lot. He lives in England though, correct?

No, Christopher lives in France with his wife Baille. Atleast that's what the jacket of the Children of Hurin says.

BTW, the typwriter in question was originally JRRT's purchased in 1959 and on which much of the late Middle-earth stuff was done. So there is considerable tradition there!

Nice. Hey William, I have a question for you--- when you write CT, do you enclose a self addressed envelope? I am going to, but my main question is if your answer is yes, did you put stamps on it? As I am not 100% sure as to what country CT is in --- I am thinking about not putting stamps on my letter.

No need for an SASE- CT doesn't mind shelling out for a couple of stamps!